Landy Peek (00:35)
Welcome back to the Landy Peak Podcast. This is your friend and host Landy Peak. And what I didn't realize when I started our journey in training Denny, our yearling Mustang, was how much parenting is like training a Mustang. And it really is this big aha, feet to the flames, bring up all of your shit experience, just like it is when you're parenting.
your kiddos. So today we're diving into my own experiences as I have struggled with working with Denny and have gotten my own help around it because some of my aha's really do need somebody to walk with me and be able to kind of process the experience. So just like parenting
With Denny, I'm having the same emotions of I don't know enough. Having all of this advice come into play. And there's so many different ways to train a horse. And some of them are definitely geared more to a horse that has grown up around people. And so there's information, and everybody has opinions, and it's just like parenting. You're trying to figure out just what to do to.
Best support your kiddo and you. And every horse and every kiddo is different. So while some advice does work with some kiddos, and some advice does work with some horses, it's not a one-size fits-all experience. And I'm piecing it together as I go while also working with my kiddos. And I think that has been one of the biggest struggles for me.
Because if this was just me and Denny, it would be a lot easier to work through. But I also have kiddos and their emotions and not as in bad emotions, but in they want to help too. And they get their feelings hurt when I'm saying, no, I need to figure this out because I've never trained a horse before. And so I'm learning how to train as I'm teaching how to train with a horse that doesn't know anything.
so at times it feels like I have bit off more than I can chew. And it's the balance of not going over anyone's capacity. And I definitely have gone over Danny's capacity. As we talked about the 13 rabbits, I've hit those 13 rabbits and had the blow up.
Where she has not been happy. And I am the only one to blame. Because when she loses it, it is she is a kiddo. And kids do not have the same capacity adults do. And so she will be upset and lose it, just like my kids get upset. And then it's correcting behavior, but also understanding what's behind the behavior. And I think that is so key in parenting because we all
Have all of this information. We're trying to do the best that we can. We don't have a ton of time. And most of your parenting is trial by fire, especially with your first kiddo. You are, you don't know what you don't know. So you don't know really how to prepare until the situation's sitting right at your fate. And so that's a lot of what we're doing. So where I was with Denny is we were going our
We were moving, I felt really easily and smoothly. Things were good. It was easy. And with us doing things with her, that part she's really good. She doesn't have a lot of human fear, which is awesome because when she first came, she was really hesitant around people. So we have created a trust that she's great with us. And she's good with other people too. Object fear.
Is a big, big thing that we are running into. And so when she's afraid of an object, right, she's a 500-pound baby. And mentally, like a teenager, flips from I'm an adult and I'm gonna handle this and I'm gonna do this. And I'm a little kid and emotionally can't handle it. And it's so interesting to watch because that's exactly
Where she is, and I have a pre-teen where I'm seeing those same things start to emerge, right? but there's there, I can do it myself, right? We go back to even the toddler times. I do it myself, mom. So we have this interesting balance in this giant beast and these two little kids that are also helping. So part of me is keeping everybody safe.
And that means that I have a lot more rules and my kids are very good at following the horse rules, but that doesn't mean they don't get their feelings hurt when I say, nope, I'm the one that gets to do this until she's okay with it. And there's things that she's okay with and they get to do right away. And there's things that she's not. And I also have to be aware of everybody's capacity. So one of the really fascinating things about horses is they do read you.
They read your energy, they read how you're showing up. You can't hide anything from them. We can internally feel unhappy and scared, and we can still put a smile on our face. The horse reads the internal. So if I'm grumpy with my kids, if my kids are grumpy with me, that energy Denny feels. And we have to be aware of if we are grumpy and we're bringing in that energy into a new task.
She starts to go, my gosh, what's going on? Is there a predator? And you can see her energy rise. And at that point, we're done. We cannot work through anything because she is now on that hyper alert state. And as we know with humans, if you're in an activated, scared, hyper-alert state, if you feel like you're unsafe, you're not going to learn.
You have to be safe and regulated to learn. And so it's a lot of balancing and a lot of me finding out that I have an agenda coming in and having to back off. So I came to a spot last week where I was like, I really need help. So I went to my mentor and her name's Amy Budd, and she's an incredible, incredible horsewoman.
And I went out and worked with her horses because I asked Amy and I said, okay, so I it's the blind teaching the blind right now. I don't know how to teach her these skills that I can do with a trained horse, but it's not translating to her. And can I please use your horses so I can learn it and feel it with how it is so I can take it back.
So as I went out with Amy and she's absolutely incredible. And I first got to work with her pony Jupiter. And Jupiter is phenomenal. She does, she loves Liber. Liberty work means that they have no lead rope. They are free to roam about the arena. She can run from me. She can come to me. It is showing you your energy. They are incredible mirrors. If I walk into that arena,
Jupiter's running around and I did the same thing with Maddie. There is a video of me on Instagram working with Maddie the Clydesdale. We were doing liberty work and you can see the energy shift. And so what happens is I go out into the arena with Jupiter. And as I'm out there, right, I go and I the first thing is like, we want to start working together. She's out grazing. She's
Sticking her nose out under the fence, getting all the grass that she can. I walk in, she knows the drill. This is her favorite thing. And so I've done this part before, and I work with her, and we get her going in the circle one direction, and then she turns and looks at me. And I ask her to go in the other direction. She's asking a question, like, can we play together? Like, I'm in tune with you. I'm no longer paying attention to the outside world.
I'm in tune with you. We see this in kids. We want this in our partners, right? We want to have that connection. And as I sent her on the second time she came in, and then I asked her to join up, which means I'm asking, inviting her, do you want to come play with me? She said yes. Amy had set up an obstacle course. We went through all of these obstacles. Absolutely great. She is
Not on lead. She is walking with me and beside me all the way through the obstacle course. Now at the end of the obstacle course, Amy put out a box. And the goal was Jupiter needed to step up on the box and put her front feet on the box. I went through the whole course. She did great. We got to the box, and just as I came to stand beside the box, in my head, I went.
my gosh, does she have a cue to get up on the box? Is she just gonna get up in the box? Do I stop at the box? Do I walk at the box? I never asked ahead of time, what do I do to get her on the box? And the minute that I lost and got lost in my own head, Jupiter stopped. Literally stopped.
And then I stand there and I'm like, can you get on the box? And she stands there. And I look at Amy and she's like, What happened? And as I said, I went into my head, I lost connection, right? I lost my horse. And we had to get back together. And I didn't think ahead to ask the question of how do I get her on the box?
And so one of the things that Amy really helped me see was I got very task-focused. I was getting through the obstacle course and then I was getting to the box. But I lost my partner along the way. And I didn't know how to break down the task that I needed her to do. I've never asked a horse to step their front feet on a box.
I have asked a horse to go over bridge, asked a horse to weave through cones. I have asked a horse to go over stuff. Those are things I knew how to do. I didn't even question it. I knew she was gonna come with me. She knew how to do this. And then I got in my head because I didn't know that next step. And so one of the biggest ahas I learned with working with Amy.
was how focused I was on getting it right and getting the task done. And it didn't even occur to me to ask. How many times did we do this in our own lives, right? We are so focused on that next thing and survival and getting through that we're not thinking ahead. And then we get to it and we figure it out. But it could have been so much easier if we thought it through. And Amy said when you're working with liberty, especially with your horse,
You have to have one part of your mind thinking ahead to what's next. Where do you want to go? What's what's the whole thing that you're gonna do, the whole obstacle course that you're gonna do? And you have to maintain that connection with the horse. You to be present in this moment. And Amy called me out, and I would talk to her, and automatically my brain is 10 steps ahead thinking, my gosh, how can I use this for my business? And this is incredible. And
And she's like, you just gotta be here in the present. You have to enjoy the present moment. And that's hard. Because I do have big ideas and big thoughts. But it's the ability to carry the duel that I think is so key. We have to know where we're going and also live presently in the moment. Because as soon as I wasn't present, I lost my partner, my horse. And so as
I played with Jupiter, it became really apparent where I was struggling with working with Denny. I would get too focused on the task, and I was losing her, and I wasn't able to break it down. So the cool thing is, Amy Bud brought out one of her other horses, Captain, who's a Clydesdale, who is just learning these skills, just learning how to lunge, to go around on a long lead, and learning how to do liberty. And so she was able to help me break.
Down the micro steps. And here's what I was missing. I was expecting Denny to just be able to follow me and do what I asked without making sure that she had the ability to do it. Now here's what I mean.
If I'm asking her to do something and I'm asking Captain, right, to work with me.
If I want him to be able to yield his hind legs, so move his hind legs around in a circle while his front legs stay still, the first step is he has to be paying attention to me. And then he has to be able to know how to stand still without me there holding him while my body moves around him.
How many times do we expect ourselves, our kids to be able to do something, but we haven't really broken down can they actually do all of the components of the task? So I sit there with Captain and I'm like, okay, he stands. Right. And then it's the micro successes. So as I ask him to yield his hind, yield, move his back legs into a circle, when I
Asking him to stand still and just move, that first shift in energy is a yes, yes, yes. If I miss that, he doesn't know what I'm talking about. He doesn't know if he got it raked. And so if I'm saying yes, yes, yes, you've got it, as he shifts his energy, he knows he's on the right track. And then when he moves his foot, I'm excited too. This is reinforcing, he's got it.
And here I was expecting Denny to just move and like, I'm queuing right. Why aren't we doing this? Because I hadn't broken down the task and I wasn't encouraging at the micro steps. And it was this aha moment as I looked at my kiddos too and thought, hmm. I wonder in some of the things that I ask, do we actually know the micro steps? And is my language clear?
Because I need my cues with the horse to be crystal clear. I also need my language to be crystal clear with my kids so they understand how much of our frustration is because I hadn't been clear in what I needed. So this came in when my son is helping. we're cleaning, learning to clean out Denny's hooves, getting her ready for the farrier. So we need to hold her foot, move her foot, be able to use a hoof pick in her foot, right? So he is practicing that with her.
And he was asking her to lift her foot. And one of the things I wasn't clear about was that she would actually need her foot her hoof to be held. Now the funny thing is, we've practiced on some of the horses at the facility that we are boarding. and they have been so gracious in letting us play with their horses so the kids can get an idea of what this is like in a horse that knows what to do.
And they have horses that are so well trained and they you cue for the hoof to lift and they hold it up and yes, you need to support it, but they my son hadn't connected the dots of when she lifts, I actually need to hold it for.
And so I was like, buddy, but I I need her to be able to hold it so that I we can like increase the time, right? We're still in not long. but it's not just a lift and down. We need to hold enough that we can clean a hoof. He missed that he was holding because I kept saying she needs to hold. My language wasn't clear. As soon as I said, no, you have to hold it for her for her, we actually had a little breakdown and then we came back to,
my communication. It was easy. He did it. He cleaned the hoof, no problem. It was a communication breakdown. And we're having that with the horses and humans in our lives. And that was such a huge thing. And so then again, coming to parenting while I'm failing and my gosh, I can't do this and I don't know how to do this. And so I'd worked with Amy Bud. I learned a ton and I also worked with Kayla Stone, who is the head trainer for Wild Rose and one of the co-founders.
And she was awesome because she let me work with one of their yearlings that we could work together to see how to break down the steps. So we worked with going over a bridge. For going over the bridge, the horse has to be like first curious. Like I wasn't cueing into what was appropriate for a yearling behavior and what wasn't.
A lot of the stuff that Denny was doing that I was concerned about is just yearling behavior. I haven't been around a yearling horse. So a lot of my standards came from adult horses. How many of us parent or have partners that parent with expectations of our kids that they have more ability than they do? They can sit longer than they can. Right? We are getting them in trouble because they literally can't do it. Or
They're just being playful, which is their nature, right? So some of the stuff that she's doing, that's just a yearling horse. Well, awesome. Like that shifts everything. I went from feeling like I was a failure to working with those two incredible women to feeling like, we're doing okay. I need to shift me. And as soon as I shift me, and I did this week, everything shifted for her.
And it's shifting for my kids too, which is really incredible. So as I was working with Kayla and we worked with this yearling, she was like, first just let him investigate it. Go around it, let him sniff it, let him see it. Right. We kind of think when somebody's like a horse spooks from something that we need to like overly force it or walk them past it or pull them away or reassure them.
But instead we just need to let them investigate. Like let them experience it. And I have a my son's a very experiential learner. And so I've had to just let him experience it. If you say don't touch something, it's hot, 100% guarantee he's gonna touch it. And then he's gonna tell you it's hot. But then his brain connects it. He has to experience it. So do our horses. So many of our kids do too. They have to learn it for themselves. And so ha letting that horse go around.
The bridge, sniff the bridge. And then, next step, can the horse stand in front of the bridge? Just stand. Yes or no. That's where I messed up with Denny. As I tried to take over a bridge myself, I was just gonna walk over the bridge. I did let her like go around it and smell it, eat next to it, but then I just went and walked over. And she did not come with me. She pulled back and went the other direction.
And in that moment, I'm like, all of the voices. The voices of you have to prove dominance. You cannot let your horse win. It has to be you've tried something and you have to finish it through. And coming back to what Kayla and Amy Bud said, they're babies. And babies and kids have a short attention span. So do something short and then let them have a break.
Reward, let him go walk, let him do something else, come back, do something short and come back. I wasn't giving Denny enough breaks and I wasn't breaking down the steps. What I realized is yes, she can stand while she's standing in front of something, and we can groom her. But can she stand just out in a field? No, she really didn't know how. And so I worked with the beginning step of
Can you stand here for me? Good girl. Yes, that's it. Exactly what I want. Constant encouragement. We broke down the task. So then when we reintroduced the bridge, can you stand in front of the bridge? Well, it's scary. Okay, so let's address the scary. Can you stand in front of the bridge? Here's a bunch of treats. yes, we can stand in front of the bridge. We did two days of standing in front of the bridge. That's it. We're not going long. We're breaking down the task.
And then we're getting success and we're moving away to something different. Yes, we stood in front of the bridge. Congratulations. Day three is when we finally got to. Okay, we've sniffed the bridge. We've stood in front of the bridge. I'm on the bridge. We're walking over the bridge. Right. She still was like, mm-mm, don't like it. No way, no how.
And as I'm doing this, I also have little observers. And so my son was there helping. And my daughter was in theater camp. And so we've added that to the mix. And he's like, mom, do you think it would help if I went first? I had been on the bridge. But I gotta tell you, I tried to get her over. She was like, no, no, no, she's backing up.
No no no, we can get till we stand on in front of the bridge. We're good standing in front the bridge. But
I said, okay, buddy, let's try it. And he went and walked in front of her and walked right over the bridge. And then we followed, and guess what? She went over the bridge. I mean, she jumped. Her front feet went on, and I think she kind of launched herself the rest of the way because it made a loud bunk and she got scared. But she went over. and that's how we did it. Two more times. Two more, that's it.
But I wanted the success and I wanted it in. So he would walk over and we would quickly walk over. And the last time she went over her third try, she got all four feet to touch the bridge. It was pretty impressive. Because before we'd have two. So it's breaking it down. It's also getting rid of my agenda and watching capacity. So here's what I've really learned.
we all have that internal capacity. And my kids, especially my son, is really good at saying, Mom, I'm right before my capacity, or I'm right at my capacity. And he's been telling me, Mom, like yesterday, he's like, Mom, you took Denny right to her capacity.
I didn't go over, I didn't elicit behaviors, but I was pushing her. So I backed back down again today. Same with my kiddos. Right? Sometimes when we have those tantrums, those upsets, it's because they have hit their max amount of rabbits. And then we pushed a little bit more. So learning with Denny, when we do those micro steps.
And then give a break. That break is discharging those rabbits, so they're not building up. We need to do that in ourselves and our kiddos too. We also, as we're building, we're building success and confidence. Each step she's getting rewarded. This is good. And then she breaks. She discharges those rabbits. She's no longer feeling that, have to do that for my kids too. Because as am
Having so much fun being out at the barn and playing with horses. My kids also have a time limit. And I recognize now that the horse had a time limit. So I was just like, well, I'll play with more horses out here. This is awesome. I'll spend all day. And I would if I could. But instead, I have my son who's like, mm, I'm done, mom. And I need to listen to that and let go of my own agenda. And that's hard.
And so when we're working with other people, ourselves, or even horses, I think it would help us all if we really looked at number one, capacity load. What's your capacity right now? How many rabbits have you accumulated and have you been able to discharge those so that you can come back to a set point that you feel okay? So it's not adding and adding, but and we're done.
It's really funny. I do a big exhale with Denny and it's audible. It's big. And she then does it too. I am teaching her, instead of go like wild and crazy, which she was at first, she would run, and she still will tip into fight or flight if I push her, if she's scared of something, and that's normal.
But I'm also teaching my horse how to self-regulate. And we're co-regulating right now. And it's really incredible because as I take my deep big deep breath, she will too. Instead of getting as she gets all excited, and I can feel the energy coming off her body, instead of letting her kind of circle and run around me, which is what she did at first, I have her stand.
And she gets treats and she knows how to stand now. It's funny what we assume people and animals know, and they really don't have that. They have that missing step. And they can't succeed if they have the missing step. So she stands, and that is how we are handling stressful moments. Is stand and I learned this from Kayla Stone, back them up, and then have them stand, right? We're shifting out of you can only be
Fight or flight or think. You can't do both. You either think or fight or flight. And if you've ever tried it with a tantruming toddler and you've either whispered something quiet in their ear and they're like, what? And they stop crying for right now. That is shifting out of that fight or flight to think. Or for older kids, if they're really, really stressed out and you start having them do like thought process tasks, even math problems, it shifts them out of the emotion.
Into the logical thinking. You can only do one. Now both are valuable, but sometimes we can shift. So I'm turning on her brain so that Denny is thinking and not just reacting. And the cool thing is, she is now starting to use that. So she exhales with me. She visibly relaxes. She is fine now when I feel her start to ramp up. I say, whoa, we stop.
If she needs to, I back. If not, we stop and I tell her to stand and I give her a treat. And she's like, and I usually do the big axe sale too. And it helps all of us. But it's really being able to say, do we have the capacity? Where are we in that capacity? Have we discharged? Have we come back to a baseline? And do they know the micro steps and get micro successes? So when we're looking at our own lives.
And we're looking at doing something big, right? We think we should be go out and be able to do it. Do you actually have all of the abilities, those micro steps to be able to keep you getting success along the way?
I want to thank you for being here for showing up for listening to our journey because it is an incredible journey and it is also hard. And it is hard to also say, I'm not perfect at this. This is a struggle. And there are days that I really feel like I got in over my head and I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And there's days where I'm like, it's like parenting and I'm gonna get through. And I'm trying to do the best that I can for Jenny. And I know.
You probably feel the same in your life. So I want you to know I see you, I appreciate you, and I want to wish you all the happiness that today can bring. I will talk to you next week on the podcast. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (31:42)
Hey, before you go, just a little bit of legal. This podcast is designed for educational purposes only. It is not to replace any expert advice from your doctors, therapists, coaches, or any other professional that you would work with. It's just a chat with a friend, me, where we get curious about ideas, thoughts, and things that are going on in our lives.
As we're talking about friends, if you know someone who would benefit from a conversation today, please share because I think the more that we open up these conversations, the more benefit we all get. So until next time, give yourself a big hug from me and stay curious because that's the fun in this world.