Landy Peek (00:36)
There's a reason so many women don't write the book. And it's not because you don't have something to say. It's because somewhere between the idea and actually putting the words out into the world, your voice gets filtered, tightened, questioned, or stopped completely. Welcome back to the Landy Peak Podcast. I'm Landy Peak. And today I'm sitting down with Leslie Capps and we're pulling that apart.
We talk about what actually holds women back from sharing their ideas, why the traditional way of writing doesn't work for a lot of us, and a completely different way to think about getting your voice out. One that doesn't require you to fight your own brain to do it. We also go into the part that no one really talks about, the moment in the process where you feel like a fraud,
Like you should probably just stop. And why that's not a sign to quit, it's actually part of the process. If you've ever felt like there's something in you, a message, a story, a body of work, but you haven't found a way to bring it to life, this episode is just for you. I loved talking to Leslie. it was such a fun conversation and I am so excited for you to hear it. Let's dive in.
speaker-0 (01:54)
I'm so excited to welcome Leslie Katz to the Landy Peak podcast. I am so thrilled for this conversation. Leslie, can you share a little bit about yourself so the listener can get to know you?
speaker-1 (02:05)
β sure. Well, thanks for having me, Landy. Super excited to have this conversation with you as well. We've already had a little bit behind the scenes, so y'all are in for a fun ride. β I live in Wyoming. That probably sets me apart right there, right? Because Wyoming's not a very populated state. I have a blue-heeler dog who runs my life. I'm not sure how I could manage, apparently, without him. And yeah, I'm super passionate about, I'm a marketer at heart.
that happens to love books and podcasting and kind of figured out a way to combine those to help women get more authority and credibility.
speaker-0 (02:43)
of the things that I was so attracted to you as I was really diving into who you are and what you're doing is you're talking about women's voices. This is something that I think so many women have ideas and things they want to share in books, in projects, in whatever it is, their stories. And we're not doing it partially because maybe we're not giving ourselves that permission, partially because maybe we don't have the time.
Maybe we don't even know how to start or where to start. Can you share a little bit about what you see with women's voices? And then we'll kind of go from there.
speaker-1 (03:24)
Well, I think you touched on so many great hangups, right? You know, the time factor, where do we start? How do we do it? And I will tell you, like, the story that always sticks in my head when I talk about this is I wrote a book about storytelling. Now, I had written a book in the traditional way using air quotes here, you know, typing, writing out.
It was super painful and it was like I had all these great ideas. I knew how I wanted to come out and it just was a disconnect. Now I talk with my hands. So this is my excuse that if my hands are typing, they're disconnected from my brain, right? And so it doesn't work. And, β I got the opportunity to pitch a book idea to take to an event. And I knew if I accepted that, that would be a 30 day, right?
Granted, I already knew I could not write the old fashioned way, but I'd been using AI to organize thoughts. And so that's how I incorporated that in and did write the book in 30 days. But I was working on reviews and I had a man take it out to review it. And he turned it back in and he said, this is written for women. Long pause, that was exactly what happened in my head. I was like, yeah, bleep, bleep, bleep. And thought, do you know how many books I've read by men?
for men and that is my only option, right? Now I think, yeah, that has changed some, but it's still predominantly, I feel like women are lesser, more and more women are becoming authors. But it's also this idea of I'm a verbal processor. Now if I can go out and talk into, you know, structure a book and then talk it out, boom, like I'm golden. Another gal and I wrote a book in
10 days from idea to publishing and on Amazon because we followed that exact structure, right? We're experts. We know what we're talking about, but we get hung up in time. get hung up. And I guarantee you, however you write it, you're going to come to that point. You think, I'm a fraud. I have no idea what I'm talking like. My brain is scrambled. What have I said? What have I not said? Like I'm crazy. β So it doesn't matter how you do that. You'll always hit that point. And that doubt.
And I think sometimes that doubt before we hit it, it gets hold of us. Cause now having, you know, written multiple ones, I'm always at that point. And I think this is just part of the process. We just move through it and go, it'll be okay. I really believe in having the, the structure and the strategy, especially for business books. If we want to use them to move our business, how do we strategize on the front end to create that?
what happens on the back end. And too many people get to the back end and go, β I didn't think about how do I bring people into my world? I didn't think about giving them an arc. Where are they, where they want to go and how do I get them there? And how do I offer little steps in between? So it is kind of an ecosystem. β but really it's the idea of, all right, between us all here, there's so many anthology books. They're great because they get women's voices out.
But there many of them that really shrink women's voices. And that hurts my heart. We have had enough shrinking of our voices. I really feel like it's a time to amplify, you know, here's my own personal manifesto. If the world's going to change, it's going to be women that are going to lead the change. And I think we have something great and amazing to offer the world and leadership. And we need to step into more leadership roles. So that's my little rant.
speaker-0 (07:17)
And you're opening my eyes, which is why I'm like, and this is exactly why we're having this conversation, which is what I said before we hit record. And I am a verbal processor and one of my biggest blocks for writing a book as I sit down, it's like if my hands aren't moving, like it dries up, there's nothing going on and I can't write. And the thought of using not just a traditional writing, but being able to verbalize your book.
and then be able to create that written word. That is like this aha magical moment that I'm experiencing right now. And that's huge because there is more space and freedom where we can do that when it's we're using the way our brain is working versus fighting against it. And I think number one, that's huge. Two, yes, I love how you highlighted that there is that
imposter syndrome fraud spot that you're going to hit because I have hit that and then I'm like, and that one went, and I'm like, maybe I should go back and revisit that project that I just totally stopped because I'm like, this is like totally, I'm a fraud and, and quit. And I'm like, I need you. Can we talk more about where we need to go as women who have ideas, who have the thoughts? And I'm so curious and my brain is going in through, you know, a thousand and three different ways as I want to ask all these questions.
But like, where do we start? Because you're just opening up this door to, don't have to sit there and write a book in the traditional sense. And part of the process is going to be this incredible self doubt. So let's just wrap that in and know it. What do we do? How do we go? How do we write that book?
speaker-1 (09:08)
Yeah, so many questions. I love that. And you're right. And I think I don't hear people talk about that imposter syndrome, right? A lot about books and it's totally there. And I don't know if it ever goes away. I guess as I write more books, we'll figure that out. But so far it hasn't. Your brain gets scrambled. You doubt yourself. But on the other side of that, which is part of why I love books, there's something beautiful that happens for people when you see your words in print.
when it is mirrored back to you, just had this happen with a woman, she was like, wow. She said, I don't know if I ever heard myself until I saw my words in print. And she said, I act differently now in the world. She said, I feel more powerful. I act different. And I think it's probably a little bit different for everybody, but there is something so powerful about holding that.
and knowing that that came from you, right? That your ideas are out there and will live beyond you. So I would say that to anybody who feels called to. And then, you know, stepping into, I think your other question was kind of where do we start? β Yeah, and I had a conversation with someone else because usually if we're creators, we have tons of content, right? Like I got journals, like I could have gone back and I just know that's not me to go back and.
But now I might, as you said, right, and pick out spots and create, read them or somehow get them gathered up. β But yeah, as creators, and especially women, like we love to bring ideas in and stuff. So she said this very same thing. And I said, here's what I would suggest is reverse engineer it. What is a thing that you want to share in this book? And where is your person right now? The ideal reader.
Where do you want to take them? So what is the journey you want to take them on? And in the sense of when they're done reading your book and you you don't need to have, like, we don't need to hear angels singing and the sky opening up, but we do want to impart knowledge, bring people to a different understanding, whatever it is, and then how are you going to get them there? And what are the doors along that hallway that you've created where they can come through naturally and go,
I need to get that from Landy because it gives another depth that she doesn't have to give here in this book, but now I'm going to give her my email so I can get that additional thing, right? Now, as a super truth be told in my first solo book I did, β a big workbook, because that was the advice. But I think that's a pretty old school advice anymore. Now we're creating different avenues.
that are easy step-ins for people, right? So that we can actually use that book as a lead.
speaker-0 (12:08)
I love how you're thinking about, I mean, it's in the taking people through that journey that you, they are craving, right? But thing and working backwards saying, this is where we want to take them and where are they now? And then creating these little doorways of opportunities to connect in a deeper way, in a different way. So it is supporting them, but also offering more. And
It is such a natural progression. And I think as somebody that's like, β sales is like, β with people. don't want to sell to people, but you're looking at it in different, like, okay, here we are. And it's more in like how I work with people. Right. And he's like, okay, so here we are. We're to start at one level and then we're going to have these little seeds and you know, different paths that you can go. If you want to go deeper or bigger or in a different direction, I can still support you.
And I love how you frame that because it is working backwards and working for the end instead of like, get stuck on like, how do I begin? And there's a whole different thing. If you're like coming backwards and you've already told the story and you're just weaving in and I'm here starting at the beginning going, I don't know the first sentence, like it takes the pressure off for the writer as well as really gives an immersive experience for the reader.
speaker-1 (13:33)
Right? β Yeah, I'm glad you feel that way. that's exactly what I think as well. β One, it has to be a journey, right? The old sales, you know, when I wrote my first book and was using AI, got some AI software. It was really interesting and had it write me a couple books. And of course, they're still sitting there because I was like, I think I would have to spend as much time inserting my voice.
It took, like I can rewrite a much faster now than that, but it was sort of an experiment. So yeah, but the whole idea of creating that experience for people and then inviting them in. The other thing when you create the structure like that, that's my other point, is now we understand what goes in that book, right? Now it's not like, how do we wrap our arms around the content? It's like, β this content gets
them to the next step and the next step and that's the book, right? So we go, β shoot, exactly what you said. It eliminates all the content. go, okay, that's the next book.
speaker-0 (14:45)
Right? And it makes so much sense. I want to tap into AI because like, how do you use, and one of the things I've struggled with is if I'm using AI, which to me, if I could, you know, verbal vomit my book into something that then can like take it and create it into the written product, that sounds amazing. But how do we use AI and still stay true to our voice? Because
That's one of the things I'm worried about is like, β but then it's going to sound very AI. ChatTPT just did the book for you. Congratulations. You didn't really work through it. My own that are coming up there. Yeah.
speaker-1 (15:26)
But I think that's really something valid. And I will tell you, so I say here's the thing all the time, probably everyone else has heard me say it at least four times in here. I never hear myself say that. And yet when I tell people that who know me, they're like, you do, you do say that a lot. But what was fascinating was because of talk to text, it showed up in my writing.
And I had beta readers reading right alongside me, because it was a tight deadline. And they said, do you know you say this? I was like, I had no idea. That would have never showed up if I was typing the book. yeah, but to your, so AI, right? Is that interesting? I'd worked with it enough, like to have, understand its parameters and also understand what I wanted to get out of it. Right? And saying, okay,
You don't need to rewrite this. We need to get a foundation. Now I've sort of created my own tool that granted we still squabble at times, but that she will take a transcript and just organize or structure it into a chapter without changing the intent or the words. But that can be a struggle. You're absolutely right. β Cause it wants to fancy it up. wants to change it. β
But it is entirely possible to do that with AI and just be very, again, I guess giving it the structure. It's a weird, kind of a weird entity in the sense of if you give it too much structure, it freaks out. If you give it not enough, it implies, it conjectures, it makes assumptions that then turn out a little wonky as well. So β yeah, some are getting that ideal of, could you write?
That's the important part is keeping our voice and how it sounds, our wording. Yeah, you know, the gal that I helped the other day that was like, I walked in the world differently. She said, I could tell, like she said, those are the words I actually said, because we did a podcast interview. I was like, yup, exactly. So yeah, I don't know if I'm giving you guidance on that, but it is possible to do.
and train a GPT to get what you want.
speaker-0 (17:50)
And you are I'm really hearing you were verbally just doing like talk to text you're getting your transcript out and Then you're using the parameters with AI to help restructure But making sure it's using your own words. It's keeping the wording keeping the flow. It's keeping the tone it's just like here's an an electronic editor
That is like, let's kind of restructure a little bit, but we're not revamping. And I think that's the distinction I needed to hear is that we can use this as a tool where we can get that support. And for me, that talk to text into a book. And I love, as we talked before, like you're talking about speaking naturally and as we speak naturally, just like we're not always aware of the words that we use that might be patterns.
But that's where our real voice is going to come through. And so it's being able to create a book in a different way verbally instead of written, keeping to our true tone and voice, but using AI to help kind of speed the process and support us in ways that are structured without losing our intent in our voice. And I love that because that's more clear cut in like, instead of
write a book, start from the beginning and go, you're like, re-engineer it in a different way and use it in a way that supports how your brain thinks, and then use the tools that are available. And this is awesome.
speaker-1 (19:27)
It's absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, to your point, when you hear your own voice, you're like, β yeah, AI didn't write this. That's all me. But it did structure it. And it did organize it. And of course, I'm a huge believer in editing too, right? But then, but that allows you to time to edit. I know on the book that I hand wrote by the time I got to editing, like I hated it. No joke, I was so over it. I
was so frustrating. was like, wanted it to, in my head, it sounded so different than the way that it turned out.
speaker-0 (20:00)
Interesting. So I'm just curious from more the traditional book that you wrote the first time to the books that you've written lately, do they sound more like you on the page?
speaker-1 (20:10)
doubt without a doubt, right? And it was like, felt, I was gonna say, I don't know that fulfilled, but like, felt like I got out my knowledge in the books that I spoke, right? In the first one, it was like, have all this knowledge, but I don't know how to translate it into words on a page, which is weird. But I could speak it out. But yeah, but when you type, you know, somebody said the other day, it's like, she said,
It's like we monitor ourselves when we type. We clean up our language, we get a little stiffer, we're like, it has to be correct. And that can also hang us up in the flow, right? Because then we get more concerned about how it's turning out than actually the words we're wanting to say.
speaker-0 (20:58)
Yeah, that is like the little aha, but it's like why I'm struggling so much. And really shifting it, I want to talk a little bit about women's voices because I think it is so important as we're talking about kind of the hows and that there is a different way that we can come about it. I think a lot of women have stories and have expertise, but we don't always have the confidence in ourselves that
And for me, it's like, I'm not the expert yet. There's somebody that's gonna know more. Can I really put this out in the world as a written thing and be able to stand behind it and have somebody not say, well, that's, know, and I know that part of that imposter syndrome coming in, but there's hesitancy to use our voice.
speaker-1 (21:46)
Right? Right? No. β it's a great point. And it's also the, the, the truth is you're going to pick up a hater or two, right? I wrote a book about storytelling. How can that be offensive to anyone on the face of the planet? And yet I picked up a guy who was a hater and on social media, but it was a very interesting experience. And I was really glad at some point that well, glad from the get go. And immediately I was like, Ooh, this is going to be fun. Right?
And then he started making comments about two other women who were commenting on my post. was like, okay, nope, I'm not going to go for that. So I blocked him. But there was that moment when I thought I could shrink down here, right? I could choose to have that voice be louder than my own. And what is the choice I'm going to make? β So I think you speak to something that's very real, especially for women.
You know, we have a lot of social conditioning that you say the right thing, you do the right thing. Yeah, know your limits kind of thing. And so it is, how do we rise above that? But the truth of the matter is as long as we're one step ahead of other people, then we are an expert in our field.
speaker-0 (23:15)
Love that. As long as we're one step ahead, we are expert in our field.
speaker-1 (23:21)
And we're going to be exporting up all the time, but also those people will be exporting with us.
speaker-0 (23:29)
Right. And it's kind of like in the visual that I just like had in my head is it's like you're just that one little step or one like your guide on a trail. Colorado, you're here with me. There's hiking, there's out. And if you go out on a trail and you've been there before, it's easy to say, okay, guess what? Just up ahead, there's this waterfall. And if we just keep going a little bit more, there's just this waterfall. And it's not like I have to know.
every plant, every tree, every fish in the water. I just have experienced this before. And I can say up ahead, there's a waterfall and this is what to expect. And it's going to be a three mile hike or six mile hike. And then we're going to go back. And that's kind of that just enough ahead that we're the expert. And we can go with some of that. We don't have to know everything. We can just know our one thing that we're in the lane and then we can go.
And that's such a relief in especially women's voices in being able to say, okay, but I know this thing, especially if it's my story, I know my story and I can share my story. And yes, you're going to get haters and you're going to get lovers and you're going to get people in between that really don't care. And that was one of the things I had to learn as a business human and that like, there's going to be people that hate what I say, people that love what I say and the good majority don't care. And it's like, okay.
I'm going to focus on these people that love what I say because then we're like all happy. But it is this space and giving ourselves that grace and permission to be like, it's okay if somebody doesn't like my work. And as long as I'm just a step ahead of somebody else, I can still be helpful. It's like you're climbing up and you turn around and you give that hand.
speaker-1 (25:17)
Exactly. Yeah. And I had a coach who described it as the interstate or highway, right? There's cars in front of you, there's cars beside you, and there's cars behind you. And really, you're looking at the cars behind you, right? And helping them get up to you and maybe even go beyond you. Because that'd be cool too.
speaker-0 (25:42)
little bit of exhale in, we're not always trying to keep ahead of somebody. Cause I think we get into that kind of rat race of expertise. But it's like, I'm part of their journey here. And then they might go on and that's okay. And I might continue to go on and we might go together and they might, you know, there's that, I love the interstate because it makes so much sense as we're like, Oh, and we might go different directions and
There's all of the different pathways and somebody's going to go faster, somebody's going to go slower. And just because we helped in one little section doesn't mean that we have to be there for the whole journey and we have to know the whole way.
speaker-1 (26:21)
Right, because they might take an off ramp, right?
speaker-0 (26:25)
Exactly. We're both heading back from Montana. At some point we're going to have to part way. My family lives in Montana, so we go back and forth through Wyoming a lot. So very familiar with the expansive nothingness that.
speaker-1 (26:40)
β in my family is Coeur d'Alene. So I go through across Montana all the time.
speaker-0 (26:45)
just like orbiting the same areas all the time. It would just roll in Eastern Washington in Spokane. So yes, very familiar cordelain, that transition back and forth. We're on the same highway a lot. Yes. I realize it, which is so cool. I want to really kind of touch down on when we are thinking we want to write a book. And we've got these ideas and this expansiveness because you touched on
speaker-1 (27:00)
Bye!
speaker-0 (27:15)
This is the idea and maybe that's the next book. How do we pare down into this is the idea and we can have more that are gonna be the next book, but not try to cram everything in because they think we have that like, is my one opportunity and I'm going to get every bit of knowledge out in my head. And then we overwhelm and I see that as a therapist with new therapists especially.
where have clients come in, it's like, and we're gonna dump all of our knowledge, and they walk away like, my gosh, I have no idea what happened. We're doing that in a lot of β ways in our lives, because it's like, β let's just get it all out, and I wanna help that person. How do we come down to an idea that can actually turn into a book and not get ourselves so overwhelmed?
speaker-1 (28:04)
Well, I would say for me, it really comes back to that structure, right? And having that where you want to start, where you want to end, and then even within that, right? β Because now if you have that kind of framework, you're like, okay, this fits, this fits, this doesn't fit. Should give you parameters of what fits and what doesn't. But then also, once you get into it, you're going to have that same issue again, right? Because now we have a chapter.
What stories fit here, what stories don't. Again, we're creating the big structure and then we're coming back in and creating little structure. And then that will guide what stays, what goes, what could be sloughed off to the next one. Cause you're right. Yeah, I'm working with somebody now. He, β like he's brilliant, right? He has so much knowledge.
And he wanted to do a book for fitness trainers. So he sent me the first part of it and it was two chapters and it was 70 pages long. I was like, dude, this is a textbook, right? This is no longer. And that's okay if that's what you want to do. But if you want to make it reader friendly, okay, some of this knowledge stuff, we need to slough off. We need to make it as what we were talking about. Okay, do you want to learn about specific diseases?
Give me your email. I'm going to give you all this information. So yeah, as we do that middle part, coming back to what is it really that they need to know? Not all the things, because then that's where your individual offers come from. But what is the one thing they need to know per chapter to move them to the next chapter?
So, right? Like, how do we bring it back to just those micro steps? The beauty of that is when you get that structure down, because I tend to, like, I don't record in a set way. I'll be like, β I love this idea of this chapter. Like, I'm super inspired to do that. So I'll go out in the garage. That's my thing, right? To go in the garage, set the phone down and talk and wave my arms and walk around. β
But then you can do that because you know what each chapter is gonna do, right? What its individual goal is to create the big goal.
speaker-0 (30:36)
And that makes so much sense. And I need that guide rail because my brain's like, woo, let's go big and share all the details. And I mean, that's kind of how I have to like how I process, get everything out. And then I have to weed back. But it's giving that in like book structure and chapter structure. let's get like, what do we really need in here? What is that? Where are they now? And that chapter to chapter is where are they now? And then where do we want to go?
for that next little micro movement and the next little micro movement. And that gives so much structure and ease in this isn't this huge, it's chunking what we're doing. It's just like a huge project. Let's break it down into individual little pieces that we get to work.
speaker-1 (31:22)
Because experts, we have so much knowledge, right? When you say write a book, you're like, oh, wow, I got content. There's so much, what do I do with it?
speaker-0 (31:34)
How do I focus it? How do I make this meaningful? How do I make that topic? Can you speak to women's voices and authority? I as we speak and write, we often and interact in the world, we often have this kind of shift between I am an expert and knowledgeable, and I don't know if I can quite use that and step into that authority.
speaker-1 (31:43)
Yes.
Right. Yes. And really that's part of what I love about books. I think it's much harder to deny that when you've written a book, right? And there absolutely is that push and pull between those voices in our head, that upbringing in a lot of cases where you're just a girl, right? You throw like a girl, whatever it is that kind of demeaning or minimizing
voices. But I do feel very strongly, like the world is, β as someone from Australia said, it's a funny place. And I said, okay, that's not the word I would use, but I probably would use something that starts with F-U, right? β But it is, it's a crazy time. And I do feel very passionately about women stepping up to that. And that is going to challenge us, challenge us to
step into that authority, own it and accept it, right? And maybe give ourselves permission to do that. There has been many times we're not given that. And so now it is on us to take it and kind of run with it in our own way. Yeah.
speaker-0 (33:20)
Can you kind of weave in the idea of we're stepping into our authority and it's hard to deny our authority when we write that book, but how that also gains us visibility?
speaker-1 (33:32)
right? It gains you visibility in yourself, right? Just like the woman who said, like, showed up differently in the world. It also gives you visibility speaking wise. Speaking and books are a beautiful combination, right? If you're looking to speak, it immediately elevates you. Sometimes in the online space, we
diminish that. had a gal say the other day, oh, everybody's at Amazon bestseller. I'm just so sick of it because it's just a formula. And I said, Yep, it's just a formula doesn't diminish it though. I said it's still important. I still love to get it. No joke. Get it and go on. But in the real world, you can't imagine how many people there are that look at that and go, wow, she wrote a book. How she wrote two books like it.
It does something because not everybody, it seems like it's sometimes in our own circles. Not everybody can or does write a book and a lot of people want to.
speaker-0 (34:30)
Yeah.
Right. And I think I want to highlight in our own circles because we do get in our own bubbles and we tend to attract a lot of people that are like us. And so you start to see, well, everybody has a book. But we're in this like small bubble that actually has created a book because there's a lot of, a lot of self integrity and work that goes into that where we have to, mean, I have heard, and I have not written a book, but I have heard writing a book is as in your face is like parenting.
where it's like, it's going to bring up all of those things that you're avoiding and all the and the meanings as you're going through this process. And I love how you say like, it is in our own little circle and it still means something because some of it, we hear that external, well, everybody's written a book. Well, everybody's getting Amazon bestsellers, but it does, even if everybody's doing it, it still means something. You still
speaker-1 (35:13)
I did it!
speaker-0 (35:36)
aided a body of work that sets your authority, that sets your voice out in the world that other people can read. And that's power.
speaker-1 (35:46)
Right. And that will live beyond you. Like your words will live forever. Right. Yeah. I had a gal ask me the other day, she said, well, what do you, what do you think about video or something like that? And I said, well, one, I'm kind of combining those two books and video, but two, I said, books, there is no other medium that is going to last like books will last even video. Right. It's going to be it's current now.
but it will get down if you got a YouTube channel, right? It drops off and at some point those go away. And I said, that's not gonna happen with books. And I love that you pointed out to this thing, cause it's so true. And I think it has to happen. Our book has to transform as we transform. And it is a growing process. I think being an entrepreneur online is the best personal growth development plan.
How did I want to say that? Personal growth. Yeah, I couldn't get it out there.
speaker-0 (36:49)
Experience? Yeah.
Well, I'm tired. All your stuff, yes.
speaker-1 (36:57)
on the planet. And if you want to speed that up, write a book. Right? Because again, the doubt, the questioning, do I know who I am? Do I know what I'm saying? Is this really true? Who am I? All of that is going to work on your mind. And I guarantee you at some point in the book, you're going to be like, I just can't go on. It's too much. I don't know what I've said. I don't know who I am. I'm not an expert. And you know that's going to happen. You just go, okay.
I'll walk away for today and tomorrow I come back and it's all.
speaker-0 (37:31)
love that. Because that is such a like, that is a give up moment for so many people. You're just saying, okay, walk away for today and come back tomorrow. Tomorrow, this is part of the process. And when we anticipate it and expect it, it's just like, okay, this is just what we're going to do. But this isn't the end. This circle back around. And that's huge.
speaker-1 (37:38)
Right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Permission to say, okay, today it is overwhelming. Today I have no idea, but tomorrow it'll be all right. And yeah, and you just come back and, and I do think there is something in understanding that everybody goes through that, right? Yeah.
speaker-0 (38:16)
And that's huge. Can we talk about women's storytelling? Because a lot of women have fascinating stories, but we, and we're really interested in listening to other people's stories, but we discredit our own. So when we're looking at storytelling, how do we bring in and weave our own story and see its value and not just, well, everybody experiences that.
speaker-1 (38:41)
Right. think there's a couple of things that happen, right? Because I've heard this so many times, like I don't have a traumatic story. mine is not important, right? Because there's people who've had big crashes and like, yeah, all sorts of crazy stuff. β And kind of really my tagline for almost everything is suffering is optional. And I think that's true of storytelling. β
Yeah, and it really is because I think too, sometimes we feel like, β if I tell a story, people are going to look at me differently.
speaker-0 (39:16)
that's a big one.
speaker-1 (39:17)
β I had a gal say that to me the other day and I was like, wow, that's fascinating because one, I don't think it's true. I think it gives another layer of empathy. β two, it does. It keeps us kind of small by thinking that. you're right, women have really fascinating stories. We can tell them in fascinating ways. And the thing to remember is not everybody has suffered.
A lot of people we're talking to, normal folks, hey, we had stuff happen. And I think just being, this is what happened, but I don't want to live there. I want to live on what that helped me do, how that changed me, who I am today and what my mission is today based on what happened to me. And I think that's a different perspective.
And it sort of opens that door to storytelling, right? I think, β well, I always talk about marketing-wise, once you kind of figure out your shtick, everything becomes a story. β last summer I talked about a skunk, a baby skunk. He fell in my window well twice, right? And yeah, the first time, not to make it too long, but animal control call, I called them because I thought that was what you're supposed to do.
They pulled him out of the window well and she says to me, well, where do want me to turn him loose? was like, β I really think that's a solution, but I got here cause yeah, I did not anticipate this. β So he's chasing me around the yard cause I want to let the dog out and I was trying to shoe him out, you know, and he's little tiny, but β fearless. And I was like, this is exactly what our marketing should be like. We're kind of blind cause they're blind in the daylight.
We don't care what other people see, but we are marketing. Like we are all in on what we're doing. We're excited about it. We want to show everybody and everybody knows what we stand for. Cause that black and white, you don't want to get on the wrong end of that. Yeah. So I think it's just finding creative ways to use our own story and bringing that with us. Here's the thing you and I could do exactly the same thing could have done.
the same training, the same programs, people are gonna like you and that is because of your story. Because your story is who you are, how you're different than me, right? Because our stories are, they're individual to us.
speaker-0 (41:52)
Right. I love that reframe. Because I love sufferings optional. Because I think so many of us look at, I didn't have the big traumatic childhood. I had a nice childhood. You know, I didn't have anything crazy happen in my life. So I don't have a story to tell. But you're right. Just in the experiences of life, you know, the skunk story is a story. And it's interesting and it's relatable. And we can vividly picture it.
as somebody that has dealt with skunks can be like terror of like it's chasing them around and it's gonna get sprayed and don't let the dog out. Cause like, β my gosh. But there is that relational event. Like in you sharing that skunk story, I can be there with you. And it wasn't anything big and traumatic. It was like, my gosh. And you're right. Like,
speaker-1 (42:33)
Good job.
speaker-0 (42:44)
Animal control is not just gonna take it somewhere like you're gonna release it back out to my yard where it's gonna come back. Like what are we doing here? And there is that part of just weaving in life experience and having that β my gosh me too and I've experienced something similar and I can put myself where you are and then you use it as a way to as you weave in the marketing
to say, this is a life experience, a story that we can then connect over. And the aha is we now know that black and white, that is what our marketing needs to be. You know what I stand for, that black and white, I know what that stands for and I know how that smells. And I love the image of they're blind in the daylight. So turn off all of the stuff, put on our blinders, know what we stand for.
and then go for it. And we think about that in our lives, in our marketing, in our businesses, in our work. We're so consumed about what's going on around us. And we're not standing in that visibility and that authority of this is what I stand for. We have that internal, I think the majority, if not all of the women listening.
speaker-1 (43:59)
Great.
speaker-0 (44:05)
have that internal die-hard strong sense of this is what I stand for and this is what I believe. But if we share it, what's gonna be that outer experience and we're not quite in ourselves enough to stand in that strong, to be that skunk and say, this is what I stand for and I can't see the rest of you. And I love that, like that's gonna be my guidance from now on. like, okay, I can't see anything else and this is what I stand for.
speaker-1 (44:34)
Yeah. And your people will find you because of that, right? You will not be alone very long. can 99 % guarantee that you, that, β I think you're right. It is that moment though, if I make that stand and it feels like I'm going to be alone.
speaker-0 (44:38)
Right?
β that's so big. I don't think it's really recognized. Right. Because there is that sense of I make that stand and I feel like I'm going to be alone.
speaker-1 (45:03)
Right now I got a little more of a spotlight on me like, ooh, ooh, did I really want that?
speaker-0 (45:08)
Yes, am I really okay being that strong as a skunk that anybody sees me and they know my story? That's like, that's hard. And at the same time, it's that skunk doesn't care, right? That skunk isn't worried about what we think and how we're experiencing. It's like, here I am and this is my life. I'm a skunk. And they're probably not even aware that they're black and white and sure they're aware that they make a smell. It's like.
speaker-1 (45:36)
not really sure. I was gonna say my dog thinks it's perfume, sadly, but...
speaker-0 (45:42)
like the worst, the skunk bass with the dogs with eyes swollen shut. And it's like, yes, if you've experienced it, you know exactly what it is. And it's such, I just want to weave back to the power of how a simple story about a skunk really brought depth, brought eye-opening moments for me, brought connection between me and you. And the listener is probably feeling something similar, especially if you've lived anywhere near a skunk.
We don't have to have this big traumatic, big powerful story. We can use a simple day-to-day experience and make those same connections.
speaker-1 (46:22)
Absolutely. And I think as women, we're really great at connecting those dots, right? We don't give ourselves credit for. So we're great at connecting dots. We're typically, I would say, and not that men aren't, but I think women have more of this bent, really on missions, really passionate about what we do. And so if you can find stories to encompass those things, you're golden.
I think sometimes the trauma stories, people get stuck there. So that oftentimes is not necessarily an advantage to have had that struggle. β But really it's just finding ways to tell your story in so that it's memorable to people. And they go, my gosh, like I had a woman meet me. We reconnected and honest.
speaker-0 (46:57)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (47:19)
I could not remember even that conversation. It was probably like two years ago. And she said, well, you told me this analogy that I was like the β ostrich that sticks its head in the sand and not in a bad way. was like she dug around in the sand to see maybe people's health issues. But I made that analogy for her and that stuck two years later. I don't remember that. That's the other thing, right? Sometimes we don't see those immediate ah-hahs.
people can walk away and they remember us. And that's what's important. We made that connection.
speaker-0 (47:54)
That's incredible. my gosh, Leslie, you're amazing.
speaker-1 (47:58)
Thank you.
speaker-0 (48:01)
for me. I hope the listener is also having all these aha moments that it's like, okay, let's write this book. Let's share our story. Let's connect this. Let's be visible. Let's stand in our authority. Absolutely. So much wealth inside this conversation. I'm curious if there's anything else you would love to share with the listener.
speaker-1 (48:20)
Hey!
β I, you know, I guess I would share if you even have the inkling of a book, I do not think you will ever regret writing one, but you might regret not writing one. β it is really a very powerful experience, whether you publish or not, but to have this thing that
speaks to who you are because I don't think you can write a book without inserting a lot of who you are into it.
speaker-0 (48:57)
I that.
to continue the conversation with you. And I'm sure other listeners want to continue that conversation. How can we connect with you?
speaker-1 (49:07)
Absolutely. I'm on all this usual social media, right? LinkedIn, Facebook, β Instagram. And I do run a free author lab every Wednesday. I'll give you the link for that because you can register and then you just, the only thing you get is a weekly reminder of when it is. It's Wednesdays at 10 a.m. our time, noon EST. β
Yeah. And then, right now I'm doing a collaboration book that, yeah, if anyone's interested, connect with me on one of those platforms, we'll take a podcast interview and we'll honestly turn it into your book chapter and then create all the marketing assets around it. yeah, it's called wake up revolution too, right? Cause kind of what we're talking about, like not only ourselves waking up to
this idea of a revolution of standing in our own power and authority, but also then helping other women that do that, right, through our stories and how we're using that to build our businesses and really β propel a mission-driven business.
speaker-0 (50:19)
Gosh, that's incredible. Okay. I will put all the links down in the show notes as I'm geeking out on all of this. β And plan on signing up to the Wednesday β lab because I'm there. So thank you for that. Thank you so much for this conversation. You are absolutely incredible.
speaker-1 (50:36)
Well, I so appreciate it. It's been a delight to spend time with you. I really have enjoyed it.
Landy Peek (50:43)
One of the simplest things said in this conversation is probably the one most women need to hear. You don't need to know everything. You just need to be one step ahead of the person you're helping. That's it. Not perfect, not fully figured out, not ready by some invisible standard, just willing to use your voice.
because the longer you wait to feel certain, the longer your work stays in your head instead of helping someone else in this world. And this conversation makes it really clear.
There are ways to do that that actually work with you, not against you. So if something clicked while you were listening, don't overthink it, start capturing it, start speaking it, start somewhere. And if this episode shifted how you're thinking, please send it to someone who's been sitting on something of their own. This is how we bring more support and wealth of information in to women's hands and lives. I want to thank you for being here.
I wanna thank you for showing up, for doing something incredible for you. And if you haven't heard it today, I want you to hear that I love you and I like you because we don't hear that, especially as moms. because as women and moms, so often we are the ones that are saying,
all of the important things to people, how much we love them, how smart they are, how incredible they are, but we're not hearing it ourselves. And I want you to hear it. You are smart and talented and incredible. And even if the world feels foggy and is big time struggles right now, you are changing the world just by showing up every day, and by doing something that is good for you. I want to wish you all the happiness that today can bring.
and I will see you in the next episode.
Speaker 2 (52:34)
Hey, before you go, just a little bit of legal. This podcast is designed for educational purposes only. It is not to replace any expert advice from your doctors, therapists, coaches, or any other professional that you would work with. It's just a chat with a friend, me, where we get curious about ideas, thoughts, and things that are going on in our lives.
As we're talking about friends, if you know someone who would benefit from a conversation today, please share because I think the more that we open up these conversations, the more benefit we all get. So until next time, give yourself a big hug from me and stay curious because that's the fun in this world.
