Landy Peek (00:37)
Today on the Landy Peak podcast, we are talking about people pleasing and parenting. What it is, what it looks like, and why it gets even louder when you become a parent.
if you've realized you're trying to raise confident kids while you're still unlearning the good girl reflex, this episode is for you. My guest, Helen Breyer, a coach who works with people pleaser, especially women and parents who are ready to stop centering everyone else and start building real internal safety and self-trust. We get into why insight isn't enough to change people pleasing, the nervous system piece most people miss,
how to start shifting without forcing yourself into big boundary moments you can't sustain, and the smallest, most doable habit that starts rewiring everything, the pause.
And Helen also shares free resources you can start using right away.
This is an incredible episode and I am so excited for you to hear it. So let's get to it.
Speaker 1 (01:44)
I'm so thrilled to have Helen Breyer in the Landy Peak podcast. Helen, can you share a little bit about yourself so listeners can get to know you?
Speaker 2 (01:53)
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Helen and I'm a coach. work with people pleasers, especially kind of mostly women and ⁓ also more recently, a lot of parents actually who are really looking to maybe people pleasing has worked for them up until a certain point. And now as parents, they're kind of feeling like they don't want to pass that on to their kids or impacting how they want to be as parents, how they want to be living. And so now's kind of the time where they want to do something different.
Speaker 1 (02:22)
really resonate with that as we learn more and grow, we often find those patterns within ourselves that we don't want to pass on and share with our kids. And so then we're in the midst of parenting, trying to parent in a very different way than we were raised and parented while trying to do our own healing journey. And that can be a tricky space for a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (02:46)
Absolutely, totally.
Speaker 1 (02:48)
So when we're talking about people pleasing, can you share kind of what that looks like? Cause we've all heard the term, but what does it look like in day-to-day life, especially for parents?
Speaker 2 (02:59)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, just because obviously one of the reasons that I work in this space is because I was such a people pleaser as I was growing up. And I mean, what it looked like for me was to the extent that when I think back to meeting my husband, for example, he might be cooking us a lovely dinner when we were dating and he would say, why don't you go and pick a movie? And I would completely freeze and just be like, you cannot put, and it sounds ridiculous, right? Doesn't it? But.
when you've experienced it, you will know what that feels like, that moment where you're like, no, you can't make me choose this. Like, what if I get it wrong? Like, I'll pick something and you'll hate it. I'm gonna have an awful evening and I'll be embarrassing. And what will you think about me? Like all those things. And I wasn't even conscious of them necessarily at the time. It's only really in hindsight, but I know like in that moment, I would just freeze and be like, you can't make me do this. And it was just things like that. Also, I remember, you know, being stopped on the street where, you know, maybe
people are promoting a charity and I'm like, cannot not sign up to this. cannot, I just, I'm gonna have to cancel it when I get home because I cannot say no to this person. So it's really in all areas of my life I found that it was impacting me like at work. Like I say, my relationships just all over really. So it's this constant almost hypervigilant sometimes of what are other people thinking? What might they want? What centering everyone really other than yourself.
and never really thinking, never really stopping to think, what is it actually that I want to do? What is it that I need in this moment? What might I prefer? What do I think about this thing even? It's just the focus always being so outward on everybody else really is how I would sort of describe it, I suppose. And in terms of parenting, because I had already done when I had my son, he's soon going to be four, but ⁓ when I had my son, I actually had already done quite a lot of work on this because I'd been realizing that
at work it was causing me lot of stress and anxiety. But then becoming a parent it was very different because he was not a chilled sort of baby if you like. And suddenly I realised that I was going to be really stifling him because I felt like I needed to control him almost, this sense of I need him to be a certain way so that we're okay, so that he's safe, so that I'm safe. And suddenly of course little kids are not, you can't do that can you? They're babies, they might.
they have needs and you really need to advocate for them, for them to be safe. And so I was felt very torn, I suppose, in terms of wanting to parent a certain way that I wanted to be respectful parenting, like being respectful, there's needs advocating for him. And then at the same time, having this awful inner tension of like, I need him to fit in with everyone else. And so that's really where this work kind of stems from for me, I suppose, that's what it looked like for me.
Speaker 1 (05:45)
Similar story. recovering people, please. As I molded myself, you know, as I dated different people, you know, somebody didn't like pie. So I didn't like pie, even though I do like pie. You know, would hold and shift and remember those situations where, you know, where do you want to go to dinner? Um, I don't know, whatever you want is great, but there's that underlying and in the moment you don't even realize it, but you name that.
underlying fear that we're going to get it wrong, that somebody isn't going to be happy with that choice. And we don't know how to deal with that unhappiness. And we later on parenting and I like you have a very, neither one of my kids like fit a mold and are quiet, but I have a very, very active child.
There are still times, and I'm aware of it, that comes up in that I want to mold them and make them fit into a little box because it makes me feel safer. And in that, I feel like I can be a safer parent rather than being able to advocate, is who my kid is. And there's a lot of work that has come to this space of, okay, he's eight, my daughter's 10. We can be a lot of, this is what my kids are, and they're gonna be loud and they're obnoxious at times.
And I'm okay with that, but I wasn't always okay with that. I really resonate with those early years and like that inner freeze and panic that comes up. So as listeners are self identifying going, yeah, that sounds me like me. I don't know if I necessarily would call myself a people pleaser. I didn't necessarily have that language in my early twenties, but I do now.
Speaker 2 (07:13)
No
Speaker 1 (07:39)
So we see the patterns, we see it in ourselves. And no, we don't wanna share this pattern with our kiddos. How do we really take that first step to start to shift?
Speaker 2 (07:47)
Yeah.
So I think for me, was a big, so I spent a lot of time in that process of, you know, that building awareness process, I suppose, like I would listen to all of like the podcasts like this, and I would do lots of reading. And it was like, I became so hyper aware of the patterns that I had. ⁓ And there's a lot of information out there, isn't there, about boundaries and about, you can just say no, and you can like, no is a complete sentence and all these kinds of things. And I just always thought.
I get it, like my logical mind understands all of that. And I know that I'm allowed like in, in there's a part of me anyway, that knows that I'm allowed to do these things. And yet I can't translate it into actually doing it because it's just too scary. And so I spent a lot of time feeling like, like I could see all the scripts that you could use or the ways that you so yeah, I quite stuck in that. And I think for me, what changed was when I started learning about the nervous system. ⁓
understanding that it's building that safety in the body almost to be able to translate those things that we maybe know in our mind or part of us knows but actually then being able to do them and it was yeah so it was kind of two parts one this building the safety in the self in the in the body and then also practice because i think sometimes what we also tend to do a little bit is that we maybe do all this reading or we start to become aware and suddenly we're like right i'm just gonna go and i don't know
my mother-in-law or I'm going to just go and speak to this person and address this really hard thing, but then we kind of overdo it and we maybe like break open something that then we don't know how to handle it either because we haven't built kind of that underlying safety enough. yeah, it's working with the nervous system and taking like really, really baby steps, sometimes much smaller than you might even think. ⁓ even thinking about one of my clients I work with, was really more starting, almost just starting at that.
awareness of noticing in the moment how you're still doing the people pleasing, like you're still going along with what everyone else is saying, but you're just starting to notice if they did ask me what I wanted, what would I actually want in this moment? Because I think that's the thing we become so disconnected almost from. Sometimes we don't even know what we want or what we need because we are just so disconnected. So it can be starting, I think, a lot more slowly than we think, I guess, would be my answer.
Speaker 1 (10:17)
And I think you really labeled something that is a big struggle for a lot of women, especially where we're cognitive learners. We're great at listening to podcasts and reading the books and having the knowledge. And it's very different to have the knowledge versus having the embodied experience. I'm right with you and nervous system work is my language, but it is coming into that space where we can feel safe enough.
to use the words of a client that literally the other day was saying, I know exactly what to say, but I couldn't do. Disconnect between our head knowledge and the embodied ability, that safety inside of our body, that we feel good enough in our system that we can take that next step. And 100 % right, we need to start small because
Speaker 2 (10:54)
it.
Speaker 1 (11:14)
we take a lot of that learned language and then we push it out and we do things like saying something to our mother-in-law or pushing out in a big way in our business. And then we have that recoil where some that was too big and our nervous system didn't have the foundation like you're talking about to have the stability to hold the capacity to be out there. So we put it out there. It opens a can of worms. We then want to attract. I used to want to go like,
fetal position in my bed, hide from the world. Cause it's like, my gosh, this is too big. This is too much. And there's like that push and pull. And so then we learn, okay, so I'm going to try to use the scripts, jump out. Then we pull back because it's too big and we never figure out that safety because we're overwhelming our system by going too big too soon.
Speaker 2 (12:06)
Yeah, yeah, and as you're saying that I'm also thinking about how sometimes it's almost also that we need to build self-trust in other ways that are not doing those scary things. So I was somebody who I was always making myself promises that I would basically break because I would be like, I'm just going to say no to this thing, but then I couldn't do it. And so I wouldn't or even just to the point of things like
I want to drink more water in my day and then I'm not going to go and do it or I want to get back into exercising and tomorrow I'm going to go for a run or whatever it is and then not doing it. And it's just, it seems like something that's unrelated, but actually you're kind of constantly telling your subconscious that you don't matter so much and that what you tell yourself can be postponed and that it doesn't, you know, it doesn't count like as much as the commitments to other people. And so I had to almost stop.
also really small, you know, just like, I'm going to drink a glass of water when I wake up first thing and that's the only maybe that's the only thing I do for now. It's a promise to myself that I am not going to break that I am going to do it. And that is just a really subtle and simple way. But you can start to kind of become somebody that you can trust to kind of have your back almost.
Speaker 1 (13:19)
Yes. my gosh, tingles as I listened to that because I think that is such a huge foundational step. Not a lot of people are talking about that. It starts with our promises to ourselves and how many times do we tell ourselves that we're going to do something only to fall through. with doing it and
when we can start to trust ourselves, when we can start to have confidence in our word to ourself, it starts to shift our confidence outside of ourselves as well. When it's like, I can be true to my word and it's hard. It's a lot harder than it seems to be like, okay, I'm saying I'm drinking more water and I'm going to honor that promise to myself despite, and I think this is where the people pleasing really ties in despite possibly disappointing somebody else.
Speaker 2 (14:10)
Mmm. ⁓
Speaker 1 (14:11)
It's that, okay, I'm gonna do this even though it might make somebody else uncomfortable. And it's going back to, I'm honoring me. And in the drinking water, you're drinking a lot of water, perhaps then you have to go to the bathroom. So then you have to like disturb somebody by, if you're in an airplane, excuse me, can you get up? So I can get out to the bathroom. If you're in the middle of meeting, being able to sneak out, having kind of that self...
confidence that I can take care of my needs. And I think a lot of women have been taught and I'm conscious in the language I use around my kiddos too, but taught to turn down our own needs so that we don't disrupt somebody else. And in that we've learned to be a people pleaser at a very fundamental young age.
Speaker 2 (15:01)
Yeah, I think that's so true. it's to someone who does not struggle with people pleasing, that probably sounds completely bizarre, doesn't it? those things. And I have had clients that were kind of like, am I crazy like this? I don't understand why is it so hard? it's like you say, it's we're taught and I do think it is often women, isn't it? More than men sometimes, especially, but you know, yeah, that sense of like, of course we would want, like when we think of our children, of course, if they need the bathroom, we don't want them to be stressing and holding it and
kind of pushing it back and trying to like, it's kind of awful to think about, but we do it to ourselves all the time, don't we like, press, I need to do this, or I need to just get through this meeting, because I can't possibly interrupt everyone else. And it's just, yeah, it kind of starts with those things. And like you say, they're kind of small and they're big at the same time, aren't they?
Speaker 1 (15:49)
Absolutely. And we don't even think about it. It just becomes that habit. And a lot of kind of those people pleasing, verbiages become a habit where we might start because it does keep us safe because, know, in a school setting, you have a really strict teacher who says you can only go at recess and you're go to the bathroom at recess and lunch. And if you raise your hand, it's going to be a big fuss. So you start turning down your own signals and you start going, okay, I'm gonna
not take care of me so that it is safer and easier for me to be in this classroom. And we do it in a home environment as kiddos because we have parents that have needs and maybe aren't as in tune with our own needs. But there's so many reasons why we start those behaviors. And I love looking at them as they are learned behaviors that we can change. It's not who we are. It's what we have taught, been taught to be.
Speaker 2 (16:49)
Yeah, completely. No, I think it's that I will always remember the first client that I had came to me and she said like, it's in my DNA, like, I just don't know how else to be. And because I think sometimes we also really, we kind of tie it in with like, we maybe we've been told that we're kind and we're generous and we're all these different things that we've come to learn about ourselves that we've maybe been praised for, and maybe that we actually like about ourselves as well.
And it's kind of understanding though that those things can coexist. They can still be without the people pleasing. we don't, we're not just because we're not maybe doing all the, know, we're not, because we're standing up for ourselves more now, that doesn't mean we're not still kind or we're not still, just because we're looking after ourselves doesn't mean we can't look after other people. It's kind of, we seem to almost think that it's black and white. It's like either us or everyone else. And actually it can be both. It might just need to be.
like, dig around around it a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:48)
I'm so glad you brought that up because I think that is a big misconception around it doesn't have to be I or both. And a lot of people pleasing has come into our identity of I am a kind person. I am a helpful person. am, you know, the person everybody depends on. And as we've taken that as those are the qualities I like, but we've overlapped them and interwoven with the people, pleasing behaviors that are toxic.
that aren't healthy for us because we're no longer standing up for ourselves and we can do both. And I'm so glad you had that and, and really highlighted it because we can shift the behaviors and start staying, standing up and saying our own needs and still be a kind person and still be a person that helps other people. And you're right. It's not black and white. There is that nuance of we get to be both. And I think a lot of people are
Like people pleasing has gotten them a long way and they have been praised for it, especially in families and in work environments. People pleasers make amazing employees because we anticipate people's needs. We're amazing in relationships because we anticipate people's needs and we've learned to watch body language so that we can see when somebody's uncomfortable, when somebody needs something and we're great at jumping in. And so these
really empathic qualities have come across and we have been praised for them and we do pride ourselves in them. And then we have people coming in and saying, well, that's a people pleaser behavior. And I've known a lot of people that then have this like, you're talking about of like, my gosh. Okay. So is that a bad thing? Because I like that part of me, but now somebody's saying labeling it people pleaser and that it's not good. So.
What do you share with people who are in kind of that sweet spot of, like the qualities, but I don't necessarily want to continue some of the behaviors.
Speaker 2 (19:56)
I think that's where it is very nuanced, isn't it? so there is a part, there is, when I did this work on people pleasing and what I see also with a lot of clients is there's also an element of when you're not people pleasing, things might actually, like other people might actually benefit from, like for example at work, say, people pleasing does make us really good employees, like you were saying, and it can get to a point where perhaps we're...
So I know for myself at work, I would struggle because I would take on too much work and I wouldn't be able to say no, or I might even procrastinate some things because they're really hard. And so I'm kind of, know I need to do them, I need to have a difficult conversation, but I don't feel equipped to do it. And so I'm kind of, and I've got stress and so I'm doing other things a lot more slowly than maybe I should. And so actually there's a lot of things that improved a lot when I started working on people pleasing. And also similarly in relationships.
Some of our loved ones really want to know us, they? They want a lot of the time and not always, of course, like some relationships will change in a different way, but some relationships, there might be a lot more depth, a lot more intimacy, a lot more ⁓ kind of mutual support and respect. And because our loved ones actually a lot of the time do want to support us. They want to know us. They want to know what we like. And they don't want only us to always help them. In fact, they might struggle to accept that if we never ever accept help from them. know, it's kind of...
when relationships can become a bit more reciprocal, they might actually improve. So we always think boundaries will be bad and they will kind of impact a relationship negatively, but that's not always the case. It could be the opposite. So sometimes there might be lots of ways in which other people will benefit also from us looking after ourselves a little bit better. I think that's probably the main thing I would say.
Speaker 1 (21:42)
And it looking at just kind of my own life as I stepped back and it gave the opportunity for other people in my life to step up, to have more independence, to have more ability to figure things out, get creative and not in a bad way. was really expanding. It allowed them to expand and grow in ways that I was stifling because I was just taking care of it. And I look at my kiddos
and consciously stepping back as they age so that they, and my daughter really does not like it. She loves the people pleasing mommy who just takes care of everything before she has to think about it. And allowing her to step into that independence to do more for herself has gained more confidence in herself. And just seeing how I've parented differently with my older and my younger,
I was a lot more in tune to my people-pleasing behaviors with my son, who's the younger one. And he's a lot more independent and capable just automatically because he's been given the opportunities to rely on himself where my daughter, I've had to reverse engineer a little bit because I over-parented. And then it was more of the like, wait, you're not going to do it for me. And there's personality differences too. He's very much a go-getter and she, if somebody will do it for her, she'll
absolutely accept the help. She's a great receiver. And looking at sometimes there's that push of, okay, kiddo, you get to do it. And she rises to the occasion. And then there's pride in that. And we get to have those opportunities and we don't see ourselves as over-parenting or over, I don't know if over-relationshipping is a word, but we step in more and we're not giving people opportunities to be able to
really succeed on their own because we're just automatically sweeping it.
Speaker 2 (23:45)
Yeah, and I've definitely I've noticed this in friendships as well. Like I used to be the person in a friendship that would always be offering the support. I would, you're ill, your whole family, having a hard time, I'm going to drop you off like a little care package and I'll all of those things. And I still love to do that. And this is the thing, like nobody is saying you can't be that you mustn't do that. But it's also saying you don't have to.
do it to the point where you're at this level of maybe burnout, because if it's not a problem for you, it's also not a problem, is it? But sometimes it gets to that point where maybe there's resentment that you're feeling or you're kind of overcommitting and you can't actually fulfill all these things and you're living in this perpetual kind of stress and guilt of all these things that you feel responsible for that you can't really manage anymore.
But now I'm kind of with going back to the friendships, now I'm more in a place where I also then have friends who will do the same for me because I do support them, but also I've allowed them to, actually allowed, like been honest about times where actually we are having a rough time with a certain thing that's happened in our lives. And so now they're dropping off the food or they're looking after my son or doing something, you know, and it's reciprocal and it feels really lovely. it's, yeah, it's just, it's not that.
just always being the one that's giving or and I think they appreciate it because it is like we all love actually to look after our loved ones, don't we? So it's nice for everyone to be able to do that. And yeah, it's kind of a gift really to give other people too, to allow them to see you vulnerable and allow them to support you also.
Speaker 1 (25:17)
You're 100 % right. And I think that vulnerability, and I'm glad to use that word, does give us more relatability. I had a friend who was similar. I mean, I'm the doer, I'm the taking care of everybody. I will get it done without anybody else's help and pride myself in that fact. And showing vulnerability, coming to her with a problem and being able to be like, oh my gosh, this is huge. And I need support here.
even if it's just a verbal vomit on you and have you helped me kind of pull out what I need. She, like her response, and I remember it was like, my gosh, you are human. And it's like, wow. Okay. So I'm like really doing that. And as I worked with clients, you know, I had a client who said, I'm so afraid to bring any of my negativity into my friendships because I'm always the positive one. And I don't want to ruin that.
And so we're okay sometimes in that paid support or in structured situations where like, okay, I can share then, but you're right. When we open up and become human and are able to share the struggles, we do open ourselves up to receive support, but we also make it so others have the ability to support. And that's a big thing. When we have those...
Uneven, unbalanced relationships where one person is carrying the load and the other person is the one that's always receiving, that doesn't make them necessarily feel good. So when we do take care of each other and have that balance, there's a lot more growth and depth, like you said before, that can happen in the relationship.
Speaker 2 (27:03)
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (27:04)
as we kind of look at that people pleasing person who we might be self identifying of, yes, that sounds like me and I'm self aware. And so I'm knowing like these are the behaviors and I love how you said that first step can be just tuning in to, okay. So in this situation, maybe I'm not saying it out loud, but what would I want? What would I choose?
What would be our next step after we're kind of beyond the self-aware, beyond we started doing and following our own word and being honoring our own word to ourselves? Where would we go from there?
Speaker 2 (27:41)
So one of the things I think is really important is, so yes, noticing in those moments, but also to create the habit because we are so out of the habit of doing it. I love the process of creating like maybe it's just twice a day, two minutes doing a little check-in with how, because I think a lot of us live in actually kind of a, when we're struggling with people pleasing, we live in this like permanent state of a slight activation. Like we almost don't quite know like,
what it's like to not feel this level of nervous system activation because we are almost always slightly in it, like sometimes a lot and sometimes a little bit, but we're almost never completely relaxed and rested and just in that state of just, it's good to be alive kind of feeling. And so I love just getting into the process of maybe it's once mid-morning and once mid-afternoon doing a little self check-in and just noticing.
kind of where we are on that. Not long, like not dwelling in it, not like being like, my God, I'm so stressed and now I'm thinking about it now I'm even more stressed, but just like taking just a brief moment, maybe just one minute to just notice. And then starting to find there's so many different nervous system tools that you can use that don't have to take a long time. I'm not talking about like an hour long breath work session or like a...
something really long, like finding a really short, perhaps it might be like, love EFT tapping, for example, a really tiny short tapping routine. You can find lots online if you Google those, or I'm sure you can find lots of you look it up, but just if you like breathing exercises, like one breathing exercise that you love, do it three times and just feel how that feels, that kind of thing. Maybe try out a few different tools that you can find and
do that just those twice, maybe two times a day, or maybe just once feels accessible right now, because maybe that feels, maybe even just twice feels like too much. That's fine. That makes sense. But when we get into that habit of noticing, sort of are not, we're not then in that hamster wheel of running and just keeping running. We're just taking those times to stop and pause. And I know it sounds like not very much, but that can actually be really transformative to just start doing that and just.
building lots of tiny little moments of safety. Because I think those tools, we might want to use them in moments where it's difficult and we might want to build like a little toolkit for those moments where we do need to do something hard and it feels really difficult. But the way that we become familiar with them and our system becomes familiar with them and feels safe with them is not necessarily to use them in those times where we're already really stressed and we're already kind of like, and now we want to do something to make this awful feeling go away. That's not really...
that sometimes it was going to work, but that's not really what it's about. I would say it's about building that foundation of safety where your system starts to learn what safety can feel like, what it means, and doing it in those tiny little increments that doesn't take away too much from the day to day. That's where I would go next, I think.
Speaker 1 (30:41)
I love that because you're right. There's like our nervous system rewires from those micro moments of safety. And I think you're the first one that I've really heard speak on the podcast about doing that nervous system support in times when you're not stressed because we do think about let's pair it for like, need a tool. And I talk about doing things before, during, and after so that we can support our system in that high stress.
But you're right, one of the missing links for a lot of people is that foundation of safety and using our tools when we are not heightened, when we do already feel a somewhat level of safety, because I think you're right there, most of us are kind of in this little bit of high activity that we're not, that's why we struggle with sitting down to rest, with not feeling guilty about being in rest. ⁓
because we're having that little bit of activation. So in that little bit of activation versus lots of activation, bringing in those tools to signal safety. I like EFT as well. but really using something that signals safety.
to our body when we're safe. So our body really aligns with this is a safety thing. This is while we're safe. And then we can pair it with times of stress and stress can be times of where this feels overwhelming and negative stress. I don't like this. And times of stress in growth. When this is, it feels a lot for our system, but it's good and we want to lean into it. And so we can use our
We need that nervous system foundation and stability to be able to deal with what life throws at us and to step into growth. And I'm so glad that you really brought up, let's start when we feel okay and really connect in our brains that this helps us when we're okay. So it helps us and gives us the support when we're not feeling okay or when we want to grow and stretch.
Speaker 2 (32:45)
Yeah, because also I think it helps us get to know ourselves better and widen just generally, like you say, widen that tolerance generally, we kind of in those moments, we're not then panicky, like, I don't know if you've ever had a panic attack before, but you know, when you start to get that, you're heading towards like a very stressful kind of experience, it can be, then we start to become almost scared of how
stressed we are, kind of, and it can kind of spiral from that place. So the more we get to know ourselves and the more we get to know ourselves in like, in more calm moments and then in slightly more stressful moments, we can be like, and also because our thoughts will change with our nervous system state and we can start to be like, I'm having this thought, but actually I'm feeling this way in my body. So perhaps that's not like the truth. That's not what I fit. Perhaps this is all part of my whole experience right now. And we can just start to kind of
get to know ourselves better if we do this and that I think is also quite key to the process.
Speaker 1 (33:44)
I agree, as especially for people pleasers where we put other needs before our own and we've kind of turned down our own signals and needs and wants, getting to know ourselves is really key. And I think there is that component of self-awareness of we know the behaviors and I think a lot of us go there and get really good at self-analyzing, but we're not taking it to that next step that you're talking about of really getting to know what we want, what we like.
Who are we as a human? And then that's the foundation for making those next level decisions. And I love how you're teasing out how much cognitive stuff versus what is our DNA base, who we are as humans, how many stories we overlay on top of what and who we really are.
So as we've talked about people pleasing and parenting, one of the things that I have found is kind of stress and struggle is a lot of times we're in this trying to shift ourselves and our stories and how we're showing up in the world, trying to parent another human in a different way that we may have been parented. And we wanna be loyal to our parents and grandparents who may have taught us these skills.
How do you navigate with people that kind of generational pattern breaking where perhaps we want to be loyal, perhaps we don't at all, but we're not just an isolated island trying to heal our own selves. We're navigating and negotiating with multi-generations.
Speaker 2 (35:20)
Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that I have really noticed actually becoming a parent is how I can see when I've, especially with my son, when he was kind of a toddler and I could see parents, like very loving parents, very attuned parents, parents who really are wanting their kids to be happy and well and cared for and everything. And still there's that like to be a good girl, to be a good boy, you're going to need to do this and you're going to need to comply. because to be honest, as parents, we do sometimes need our children.
comply with us and it's really easy I think when they're toddlers and we have like a very limited sometimes we need to just pick them up and do the thing or we need to kind of get them to leave the house with us or we need to there's not always it's not necessarily that it's bad parenting or not respectful parenting even but it's just sometimes in the way that we talk or how child care providers might talk you know good girl good boy for sharing or doing these things when they're very very little you can kind of see how children could really easily learn.
that actually I need to fit in into this group or into this situation. I perhaps do need to behave in a way that they want me to behave. And so I think it can really help looking at it from that perspective. It's not sometimes, of course, there are other situations where there's, you know, perhaps trauma in our past that has kind of led towards this people pleasing path, but it might actually be that it's just a parenting styles. And of course, our parents did parent differently perhaps to how
you know, there's been lots of historical shifts around parenting as well. And so it doesn't have to come. I think the thing that I love to think about is that it makes sense. So it makes sense that we have picked this up. Like, it's nothing weird about us. It's nothing kind of unfixable. It's nothing, but it makes sense that this is what we learned. And maybe for our parents, it also made sense that this is what they learned or that this is the way that they parented. And of course, there is a lot of nuance around that. And, you know, some parents perhaps did.
because a lot of the time I love to think about how parents did the best that they could with the information that they had. And of course, some parents perhaps didn't and actually weren't as good parent as they needed to be. So there can be both or a mixture or a very nuanced thing. But I think as a parent, I've now become a lot more both times and how when you just need your child to...
come to the doctor's office with you and they really don't want to and it's tricky. You might, I don't know, say something that perhaps you wouldn't like to say or that you're maybe using maybe a bribe or something, you know, that you isn't really in line with your parenting. So I can see how some situations might bring that up. And so I have more compassion around that too.
Speaker 1 (38:01)
I think you're right. A lot of society has set us up to be people pleasers, because if we are bolded to be the person that follows directions, that doesn't cause trouble, that does what we're told, we are really praised. And in parenting, in school systems, in... ⁓
Anywhere that there's a lot of humans, right? We have systems set up, whether it's reward systems, whether it's the words that we're using, whether it's shame that's coming in. Our society sets us up to follow the mold so that we are the quote unquote good girl, good boy, and do what we're told and don't cross problems. And as a parent, I'm fully resonant. There are times I'm just like, can you just do
what I say when I say without argument, I want that more traditional child that's just like, I'm gonna do it. At the same time, I want to rear my children so that they are functional humans when they grow up who can make their own choices, who can stand up for themselves and others. And that does make it difficult as a parent because there is going to be pushback so they can learn safe pushback, but that doesn't always make it easy for me.
And I love how you can really highlight that our parents probably learned that from their parents who learned that from their parents. And it is patterns that were supportive and successful in getting people to kind of fall in line. And our generation seems to be more in, let's look at what it's doing to people and how can we shift so that we have more of a voice and we can stand up and stand out.
And it is this fine balance of, okay, but that doesn't make it easy parenting. And parenting is nuanced. There are going to be times if even if we are, I'm an aligned, respectful parent, and this is how I want to parent when I'm stressed, when I'm overwhelmed, when I'm feeling judged, a lot of different situations, I might parent differently than what my ideal would be. And also before, you know, looking at
And I totally remember judging my brother-in-law and sister-in-law as they parented their young child. And I had no kids because I'm like, my gosh, I never do that. And she was totally picky eater. I'm like, and there's so many issues and you know, she's just eating plain butter noodles at every restaurant we go to and so much judgment around that. And then I become a parent and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, if you just eat.
Because if you don't eat, totally know the meltdown that's gonna happen and I'm preventing it. It's so hard to be in a restaurant with other grownups that I have kids. Like I get it now. But before kids, I had no idea. And so they're, I think giving ourselves grace around we're gonna change and the rules are gonna change as we're playing the game. And there's going to be times where we say things or do things that don't necessarily align who we want to be as a parent, but that's okay.
It's not to be perfect. And that comes in, think, with our people-pleasing tendencies. If we want to be the perfect parent, we want to be the perfect spouse, we want to be the perfect worker. And letting go of some of that perfectionism to be like, okay, I parented the best that I could today with the resources that I had and that I know. And that's what my parents did as well. And that's what my grandparents did as well. And we have a lot more knowledge and it's not like it's less stressful.
we're still dealing with a lot. And I think there's that balance of, and you said before, ⁓ if it's working for you, it's or something like that, you know, if it's working for you, it's, it's working. It's okay. We don't have to change things that aren't working, but we get to change things and have choice and things that we don't feel are working. And so it's not becoming perfect. It's looking at what is working for me and what isn't working for me and the things that are no longer working for me. And as we evolve and change,
things change for what's working and what's not, then working with, you know, the things that aren't working, that was a lot of workings. So hopefully that made sense.
Speaker 2 (42:20)
Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (42:24)
we are coming to a close is there anything else that you would like to share with the listener?
Speaker 2 (42:32)
I think for me just reiterating maybe just one final time that thing that you kind of really first brought up around that people pleasing is not who you are. Like there might be things about it that is related to you as a person that you do identify with, but people pleasing in itself is really just a strategy that you learned, like a behaviour you adopted to feel safe. And I think
Going maybe a little bit further again with the point that I made earlier around the first thing you could do is starting to notice in yourself, like what would you want? One of the first things that you could implement is a little pause. Like when someone, you get a work email to ask you to do something, somebody sends you a text and invites you to something or whatever it is.
if you can start building that habit of, it doesn't need to be a long pause, it doesn't need to be like, I'm not going to reply today, but it could even just be two minutes. If you're used to being someone who always says yes, who always immediately says yes, it could be that you just give yourself two minutes to reply to that work email rather than immediately saying yes. And again, it's not about not saying yes, but it's about just taking that little bit of time to check in with yourself and to notice, and then you can still say yes, but you're building that habit of...
pausing and not immediately responding and checking in with yourself at the same time. So that's what I'd say.
Speaker 1 (43:53)
my gosh. I love that. I had somebody share and I cannot remember who I think it was on this podcast. ⁓ they like top CEOs always have pause. And I was like, ⁓ that's awesome. Because as a people pleaser, I feel like I needed to respond right away and building in that pause is so huge. And a, get to take a breath. I'm no longer reflexively responding. I'm actually thinking things through. So my
Thoughts are more put together and I've integrated even in that first breath is my pause. Like that first word is a breath, is a pause. And especially in parenting, when something is happening and I have that enough, like, then I go into it, I'm a more settled parent and not necessarily just snapping and saying, stab me right now. Although that comes out.
but I have more thoughts and I love how you're saying that's such a, I won't say easy, but doable step in when the text comes through, pause. You don't have to respond right away. When the email comes through, pause. You don't have to accept every phone call. Most of my phone calls go to voicemail and then I will call you back.
better responding to text because it gives me that space to be like, okay, I'm going to get myself in a good space, nervous system regulation, and then respond when I'm feeling like I'm in a good space versus I'm like, ⁓ and then I'm gonna answer the phone and then I'm gonna answer a text and I'm gonna do emails all at the same time. You can hear my voice just goes, whoa, versus, okay, and pause, and then.
Speaker 2 (45:45)
Yeah. And then once you practice it, perhaps with texts and emails, eventually you might get to a point where somebody says something to you in person and you can even say, that sounds amazing, let me check and get back to you. it kind of becomes, because that probably feels too scary in the beginning. But once you're in that habit and you're building it, you can get to that point where you can also do it in person and it becomes just a bit more almost like eventually it will be just second nature that that's just what you do. But starting slowly.
Speaker 1 (46:12)
I love the starting slowly. Thank you so much for this conversation. It's been incredible. I know there are listeners who are resonating with what you're saying. Can you share how people can connect with you?
Speaker 2 (46:25)
Yeah, of course. So I mostly would say that I'm on Instagram. So it's helland.bryar, B-R-Y-E-R, and obviously you can add the links and everything. So that's where I'm probably most found. ⁓ And if anyone's kind of in that space where they don't really know where to start or how to start, I have, it's a free guided audio journey called The Soft No, which is kind of a nice, like gentle introduction for people.
If they are just looking, maybe setting boundaries has always felt too scary and they've always felt like it's not for them, it's just not something they would ever be able to do, that might be a really lovely starting point. And the other thing is that I have, if you find yourself regularly in moments where you're kind of overwhelmed with guilt or perhaps there's been a social interaction, you're just spiralling and you're worrying what people are thinking of you or you...
do have to say no to something and it just feels too bad or, you know, all of those kinds of situations that we find ourselves in as people pleases. I do also have a tapping bundle that has five sort of different scenarios that people can check out and see if it resonates. And yeah, there's a tapping kind of created for each of those scenarios. They can just kind of play and do straight away to help them in the middle of a spiral, shall we say.
Speaker 1 (47:40)
Gosh, I love that. And I love the, the title soft no, because a lot of, know, when you have that people pleasing, just saying no can feel very scary in your nervous system, not necessarily in your head, but in your nervous system of like, what's going to happen. But that soft no is very inviting. I will have all the links down in the show notes. Thank you so much, Helen. This has been a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (48:05)
Thank you so much for having me.
Landy Peek (48:07)
If you heard yourself in this conversation, here's the takeaway I'd love you to hear. People-Bleezing isn't your personality. It isn't who you are. It's a strategy you learned, often very early, to stay safe, stay connected, and avoid conflict. And strategies can be updated. Start with one move that changes everything. Pause before you answer.
Take a breath before you speak, before you respond to a text, an email, a request, a can you, even that overwhelming of mom, mom, mom, take a breath, give yourself that moment. That can really shift so much in your life.
If you want to connect with Helen, you can find her at at Helen Breyer on Instagram. I'm also linking all of her information in the show notes. And if you know a woman who is parenting, leading and trying to heal at the same time, send this episode to her. This is one of those conversations that really does open doors.
Make sure to follow the Landifique podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts so you don't miss a single episode.
Landy Peek (49:19)
And I want to share something I am so excited about.
Let me ask you something. When stress hits, do you react in ways that you don't like and don't choose, even though you know better? That's not a discipline problem. It's not a willpower problem. And it's not because you're doing anything wrong. Stress is automatic. And I'm releasing a brand new program called Stress Rewritten, and it's coming out in February. And it is a private audio experience.
And I want to emphasize that it's an experience. This isn't a course that you're listening to and learning. This is walking you through it in the moment. I created Stress Rewritten for that exact gap, that space between I know what I should be doing and what I want to be doing and being able to do it. Because those are two very different things.
This isn't stress management. It's an actual pattern change. This is designed to speak to your subconscious through subconscious audios, nervous system rewrites, and talking to the parts of you that are calling the alarm. This is something that I have
used with my one-on-one clients and I'm deciding to release all of my audios for you in a specific purposeful way to help rewrite your stress response while all you have to do is listen. It is designed so that you can listen to it while you're falling asleep, listen to it on the go, or listen to it when you're actually taking moments for you. It does the work
Your brain responds, it speaks directly to your subconscious, and you see changes in your real life quickly. I am so excited about this. There is a link down in the show notes to join the wait list. Again, it comes out in February, and this is an incredible experience where all you have to do is listen, and that's it. You get to change your life on the go.
without learning anything more or new. So join It's down in the show notes. And I wanna share how grateful I am that you're here, that you're showing up, that you're doing something incredible for you. And I so appreciate you listening. Every time you push play, you make both my life and your life better by supporting me and supporting you. I wanna wish you all the happiness in the world.
and I will talk to you on the next episode.
Speaker 2 (51:57)
Hey, before you go, just a little bit of legal. This podcast is designed for educational purposes only. It is not to replace any expert advice from your doctors, therapists, coaches, or any other professional that you would work with. It's just a chat with a friend, me, where we get curious about ideas, thoughts, and things that are going on in our lives.
As we're talking about friends, if you know someone who would benefit from a conversation today, please share because I think the more that we open up these conversations, the more benefit we all get. So until next time, give yourself a big hug from me and stay curious because that's the fun in this world.
