Landy Peek (00:36)
you know those little phrases we say right before we share something that matters? This probably isn't very good, but I didn't really have time to prepare. So we think we're being humble, but really we're quietly shrinking ourselves. I'm Landi Peek and welcome to the Landi Peek
Today's conversation is for the woman who has so much inside of her to say, to write, to build, to paint, to launch, and who has learned to wrap it all in a disclaimer so it feels a little more palatable and a little safer. I'm sitting down with writer, creative coach, and founder of Creative Groove, Jen Jones Donatelli.
to talk about what happens when we stop apologizing for our creativity and start actually claiming it. Jen has spent years leading people through the artist's way, coaching them as they write books, start businesses, and reimagine their lives. She's also created something I instantly fell in love with, the No Disclaimer Zone, a simple, powerful practice that helps you notice when you're about to discredit yourself and choose a different way of showing up.
In this conversation, we explore why disclaimers feel polite, but actually chip away your confidence. How your inner critic and your nervous system team up to keep you small. Simple sensory tools to come back into safety before you reframe a thought. The difference between creating for love and creating for money and why it matters. And how to step into a new identity, writer, artist, business owner, without waiting for external permission. My hope is that
As you listen, you start to notice the places you soften your brilliance, laugh off your talent, or pre-shame your own work, and that you feel your body exhale at the idea that you don't have to do that anymore. So take a breath. You don't have to earn your way into the room today. Welcome to your very own no disclaimer zone.
Speaker 1 (02:46)
I am so thrilled for today's guest. have Jen Jones Donatelli here with us. Jen, can you give us a little bit about you so the listeners can get to know you?
Speaker 2 (02:57)
Yeah, sure. So I live in Cleveland, Ohio, midwesterner. I'm a mom of almost 10 year old twins. Yeah. And I, I'm the founder of Creative Groove, which is a small business that offers, you know, coaching programs, courses, community experiences all around creative living. And I absolutely love what I do. I've been doing it for a long time in different forms. And I can't wait to talk to you today.
Speaker 1 (03:27)
I'm so excited. one of the things that as we were chatting before,
We're talking about how we use disclaimers, how we talk. And as you said it, it was like the light bulb going off in my head of how many times we do use disclaimers and we don't even realize it, but we're discrediting ourselves in the way that we're talking about ourselves. You want to share a little bit more?
Speaker 2 (03:55)
Yeah, so I've been teaching workshops and coaching programs for many years now. And I support people in reaching their creative goals. So that can look a lot of different ways. That could be writing a book. It could be growing a business. It could be just daring to imagine what a more creative life might look like. But those are all really vulnerable endeavors. And so I've been teaching the artist way now. I don't know if you're familiar with that.
Okay, great. So I've been teaching the artist way now for about eight years. And what I started to notice over time was that a lot of times before people would share something they wrote, or something that they, you know, maybe journaled about, some sort, they shared maybe a piece of art that they made, they would always preface it with some sort of disclaimer, you know, maybe like, well, I didn't really have a lot of time to do this. So, or
Well, this isn't very good, but I'll share it anyway. And it became so common that when I started, so at the beginning of each session, no matter what type of class I'm doing, we design an alliance together. We basically create space agreements to make sure everyone has a great experience. And one of those agreements that I've incorporated for quite some time now is what I call the no disclaimer zone. And the no disclaimer zone is basically when you feel a disclaimer bubbling up.
you simply wave your hand and that will alert the group that there is a disclaimer hanging out in there, but that you're not going to say it. And that wave of the hand allows you to kind of wave away the disclaimer, but training yourself away from giving disclaimers can be very powerful. And it's really cool when you start actively doing that. And like you said, just starting to notice how often we actually do that, whether it be in a meeting at work,
or when we're sharing something new, maybe a risk we're taking, we often try to soften it with a disclaimer, and it could be so much more powerful when we stop doing that.
Speaker 1 (05:54)
It is. And it is, it's like that vulnerability. And I love how you're doing it around that creative outlet because in our most creative space, I think is one of the most vulnerable spaces that we can be in. And we do have that coming out. And, what's somebody going to think about this? You know, this is like me really laying it out here. So if I just soften it a little bit, I have a way to kind of back out if there's feedback that I don't necessarily like. But I love
that you're encouraging people to step into their power. That just having the wave around the disclaimer still says, it's there. I'm still feeling those thoughts and beliefs and feeling that nervous energy coming out. And I'm going to step more in my power and not allow the words to be spoken and really own what I'm putting out into the world.
Speaker 2 (06:46)
Yeah, I mean, I find myself kind of inhaling as you say that because it is an energy shift. ⁓ Yeah. And it's funny, people have, I lead a writing group every once a month. And when I share this idea about the no disclaimer zone, I notice people's shoulders kind of like.
become less tense or there's like some nervous giggles and it's like, yeah, we all do that. We all have that inside of us. And so it's kind of this universal experience of what starts to happen when you start taking risks in your life and your creativity. sometimes when we're giving disclaimers, it's almost like we're trying to stay one step ahead. It's like, well, if I say it's bad, you know, that I already know it's bad and nobody else can kind of make me feel that way. So there's like almost like a shield of armor around it sometimes or like a protective.
piece. But like you said, owning it, that just kind of says like, this is important for me to share, you know, and maybe that judgment doesn't matter as much. This is just something I need to put out into the world.
Speaker 1 (07:48)
Right. So as you're stepping into that creative outlet, as you're really supporting people, encouraging people to share their ideas, their thoughts, their creative pursuits, how do you really reframe? Cause the disclaimers are still coming out, right? They're still in their head. You know, we're shifting and sweeping, but how do we support people in having more confidence to step out? How do we really support the disclaimer that's going on inside the brain?
Speaker 2 (08:17)
Yeah, so well, you the artist way looks a lot at reinventing your relationship with your inner critic. one of the reasons I love it, right, is that it allows us to take a look back at all the messaging we got through our lives about our creative potential or even just our potential in general. Right. You know, and that can be from teachers, parents, friends, relatives, even strangers. You'd be surprised how many people got one
passing or cutting comment from a stranger that stopped them from doing the thing they love for years. ⁓ And I call those seeds that turn into weeds. So we need to like pluck our garden, you know, and ⁓ re-till the soil, so to speak. And ⁓ the way to do that is one, you know, to become aware of, okay, for the longest time I've been telling myself I'm not good at writing fiction or I could never succeed as an entrepreneur or whatever.
that broken record is in your brain, start to think about the roots of that. It's like, okay, well, where did that come from? And then you can start to think, I actually have a really great worksheet around this. So I'm trying to think what the questions are because they're really helpful. Then one thing that's kind of neat is you can acknowledge what I call the 2 % truth of it. So it's like, okay, what's the kernel of truth in this limiting belief, so to speak. I don't really like that term for some reason, it's never really jelled, but that's what it is, limiting belief.
what's the kernel of truth in this limiting belief? Like give that little piece of acknowledgement of what we can learn from it. ⁓ And then what's the reframe? You know, how can we kind of like flip the script, maybe make some sort of affirmation out of it or ⁓ find a new way to kind of balance that energy. I'm trained in something called positive intelligence. And ⁓ one of the things it does is it looks at ⁓ our saboteurs.
So all of us have an inner critic, but the voice of the inner critic is informed by the saboteurs. So ⁓ those can have different voices and personalities, depending on our background and ⁓ all those experiences that we've been through in life. But one of the ways you can move through those saboteur voices using positive intelligence is you can do something called a PQ rep. So let's say that voice comes up. Let's say you sit down at your computer and you're ready to maybe try writing a
chapter of your nonfiction book and you are just blank. You're like, ⁓ I'm just not good at this. I'm never going to become a fiction writer. So when you catch that kind of broken record moment coming up, what you want to do is you want to just pause and reflect. And then you want to do some sort of sensory check-in with yourself. So it's a very simple, quick 10-second check-in. It doesn't have to be this big, long meditation or anything like that.
It can be rubbing your fingertips together, you know, and noticing the textures of, you know, the ridges of your fingertips, or it could be kind of grounding your feet down into the ground just for 10 seconds, or even listening for sounds near and then listening for sounds far. And after you do that, you know, kind of like press the reset button,
then what you can do is you can ⁓ share that affirmation or that kind of reframing statement to neutralize the energy. So you move from kind of negative into positive energy. And if you do that each time your inner critic comes up, you'll find that you're kind of retraining your brain away from that negative language.
those are some ways I think that if you have a very active inner critic, start to actively coexist with it. And, you know, just really retrain your brain because I personally don't like when people say tame your inner critic or silence your inner critic because honestly, that's just not realistic. So how can we reinvent our relationship and coexist with it so that it doesn't stop us from doing the things we want to do in our life?
Speaker 1 (12:14)
Oh my gosh, there's so much in there and I love your language.
Speaker 2 (12:20)
⁓ Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:22)
saboteurs. We're talking about reframing our inner critic's voice and really stepping into, we're not pushing it away. We're not taming it. We're not, you know, cause once we start forcing and getting in this battle with our inner critics, it just becomes a battle and we're not moving past that energy. And I love how we're just like flipping positive, know, bringing in that positive energy when we're feeling that negative, how you're bringing in that sensory.
where we're really tapping into nervous system safety because as we put ourselves out there and we're like, my gosh, we're tapping into that sympathetic nervous system where we're going into that fight or fight over trying to figure out how to write. And that simple sensory, let's figure your fingers, let's push your feet into the floor, just as into that parasympathetic of like, I'm safe here, I'm okay here. And then reframe.
And that's such a powerful step I think so many people miss because we're here and like, I'm stuck. I'm feeling a thought. Well, I'm going to try to override and push on that thought and bring in something positive, but we're just still in that very fight or flight type mentality. And that simple tool of like, okay, I'm safe right here. I can feel my fingers. And then I'm reframing. It's just such a beautiful sequence that makes so much sense.
brain wise and system wise for our bodies. And I haven't heard anybody really frame it in that way. And I love it so much.
Speaker 2 (13:56)
Can share one thing that you just brought up? Yeah, because I think often when we hear words like positive, know, sometimes like some of us might think like, okay, that's toxic positivity. Like I don't actually believe that thing, right? And so what I want to offer is, cause I understand that, you know, it's really hard to move away from the inner critic. ⁓ But what you're doing is you're just giving your brain an alternate truth to recognize because like the, I'm not good at fiction. I keep using that as my example, but we'll roll with it, right?
Speaker 1 (13:59)
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:26)
So like, I'm not good at fiction. Like that becomes your truth over time when you repeat it again and again. So if you give this kind of counterpoint, it just kind of neutralizes that energy to give your brain something different to consider. Maybe you're not going to believe it right away, but the practice of kind of moving away from just defaults, know, negative or harmful statements will help you start to maybe believe differently.
Speaker 1 (14:48)
Absolutely. With a lot of my clients, I use what the visual of a pendulum, where we have that whatever thoughts that came up or feeling that often what we quote unquote negative, right? Something that we're not loving, but giving ourselves another option. And, you know, where that kind of more positive, supportive thought comes in and just letting your brain ping pong between the two. As we go, OK, here's the negative thought. I am not good at writing.
And having something more supportive come in, I am creative. Doesn't have to be like huge. I'm not good at writing. Can my brain just entertain the idea if I'm creative? And then I can go back over, I'm not good at writing. And then I can ping pong back to, but I'm creative. And just like a pendulum with gravity, it bounces back and forth and eventually settles towards the middle. And we come into this space of like, ⁓ okay.
And it's not one or the other. don't have to force ourselves to that toxic positivity of like, I'm just overriding this and really pushing this thought. But I get, I love the giving brains two options. It's just like,
Speaker 2 (15:59)
You
can make an empowered choice. It's like, I going to choose to believe that I can't do this or am going to choose to believe that maybe, maybe I can.
Speaker 1 (16:08)
Right? I'm creative. So I'm creative gives me more options, more doors open, more opportunities. And maybe I find a back way into writing. Maybe I'm like, okay, I'm not a good fiction writer, but I'll play with poetry and then I'll do this. And then I'll get to where, because we've built up the capacity of, okay, so I can play with this and this is okay and this safe. And we bring in your sensory tools. Then we're really building a system that
is more supportive that has a range to be able to play with instead of this narrow focus of I'm sitting in front of the computer and I'm not good at this and I can't do this. I'm going to shut it down. I'm going to feel bad and we never go back to it.
Speaker 2 (16:52)
Right. And I like that you use the word play because I think when you adopt a laboratory mindset of I'm just experimenting, like maybe I'll never publish this book. Right. Or maybe I'll never, you know, become a million dollar entrepreneur or whatever it is. But it's like, why can't I just play and experiment and prototype, you know, to see if this is something I want to do or might be good at or just enjoy?
Speaker 1 (17:15)
Wait, and I love that, or just enjoy. Cause I don't think we give that enough credit in our life to, we can do things, especially creative things to just enjoy. It doesn't have to turn into, this is my career where I'm going to be a million dollar entrepreneur. This gets to be something I just enjoy. And in that playful enjoyment, it's bringing us so much into a different energy and space.
where we're opening more doors in our creative minds where it's like, ooh, but if I'm just playing and there's no like hard risks attached to it, we go bigger farther because it's play.
Speaker 2 (17:58)
thousand percent and I think there is a lot of pressure out there to monetize your passions today. ⁓ Like if you make cute little record earrings it's like you should put that on Etsy and like maybe that'd be a great idea but sometimes just creating for the pure love of it ⁓ can be so fulfilling and like you said spark other possibilities or passions in your life.
Speaker 1 (18:19)
Right. And it's the spark other, you know, like the other possibilities and passions. It doesn't have to be, okay, this is going to the end of, you know, linear. This is my passion. I'm going to then monetize it. And then I'm going to hate it for the rest of my life because I lost all the passion and creativity because I turned this into something that I have to force. And I love the idea of, yes, we can turn it into passion, into what we do for work and play. And we can just do it for passion.
and opening up the doors to this gets to just be fun. And if it turns into something different, amazing. If it doesn't, amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:57)
And one of the questions I ask a lot of my clients depending on their goals are, are we doing this for love or for money? Yes. Because our approach is going to be different. And if you don't know yet, that's OK. We'll figure it out along the way. But often answering that question can really help you get clearer on how you want to approach a new endeavor.
Speaker 1 (19:18)
Oh my gosh. Okay. There's so many things that I want to come back to as our conversation is going. So love or money, I want to go there. I also want to swing back to, can you talk about the artist's way? Because I realized as I answered, yes, I know about the artist's way. My listener probably does not.
Can you share a little bit more about the artist's way? And then I want to swing to love or money and how we really tease out the two. And you're going about it differently if depending on that goal.
Speaker 2 (19:49)
Mm. Yeah, so OK, so the artist way I could go on and on about this, but I will keep it succinct. And then if you have any other questions, I'd love to like do a deeper dive. But long story short, I lived in LA for about 16 years and one of my very first jobs out there. I'm going to age myself here. But I worked on the movie Daredevil in 2002 with Betty Affleck. It was a Marvel movie. It was a crazy, awesome experience. But the
I, my, my team, I was like the lowest person on the totem pole. My team gave me a gift at the end and it was a copy of the artist's way and the corresponding journal. And I was fresh off the boat from Ohio, like never heard of the artist's way in my life. So I promptly put it on my bookshop and kind of forgot about it. And then about six years later, I saw a flyer that there was going to be a 12 week workshop at a bookstore called the Bodie tree on Melrose Avenue.
And I always love, you know, I'm a joiner. I was like, oh, that's cool. I have that book. Like, that sounds really me, you know? And so I signed up. And honestly, it opened a door to a whole new world for me. You know, I've always had a very harsh inner critic and I've always been highly creative. And so those two things are a big focus of the book. So guess I should share what the book is as I tell this story. So the book was written in 1992 by Julia Cameron, who
is kind of considered one of the godmothers of creativity at this point. It's actually one of the bestselling books of all time. I have a Google alert on it and I still get alerts that it's on the bestseller list, which is kind of nuts. I like to call it a timeless tome around reconnecting your creativity.
And like I mentioned earlier, it's really about ⁓ just pausing to notice like what you believe about your creative potential and then maybe dare to ⁓ think differently, you know, if you're creatively blocked. And the book provides all kinds of great tools to do that. ⁓ And it's really about creative life design. So if you've lost touch with your hobbies or you don't even know what your passions are anymore or you just
maybe you're retiring or you're in some sort of transition and you want to create a vision for your life. I find that it's a really great book for people in transition, people who are just stuck or in some sort of rut and people who just want a unique experience around self discovery. It's kind of a shape-shifter. There's all kinds of different outcomes around it. So after that initial Bodhi Tree 12-week experience, I ended up doing it ⁓ several times with the same instructor.
And it kind of saw me through different parts of my life. Like I was doing it when I was becoming fully self-employed. You I was doing it when I was going through fertility treatments. I was doing it at different, you know, stages of my life where it was really not just a creative companion, but a lifeline, I would say. And so I was super into the artist's way. And then when I moved to Cleveland about seven, eight years ago,
You know, I was talking to people like you said, and like there wasn't as much familiarity around it in the Midwest. Like in LA, it's like how it's a rite of passage. It's like everybody's done the artist way because everybody's actors and writers and creatives, you know. But here, I mean, there was a fair amount of familiarity, but there's a lot of people I talked to. They're like, what's that? Or, I'm curious, you know. And so at that point, I had been a trained coach for many years and I was like, I'm going to design my own coaching curriculum around this. And so I kind of designed a
around the artist way that I've been offering for about eight years now. And I do it twice a year and it is incredibly fulfilling work. And ⁓ I encourage anyone, whether you do it in kind of like a group like mine, that's more structured or you just do it on your own. ⁓ It could be a really worthwhile endeavor if you're just looking to kind of dare to dream or dare to imagine like what a more colorful life could look like.
Speaker 1 (23:44)
It's incredible. It came to me in peri-menopause as I'm like, okay, I no longer have hobbies and a life. It's like work and kids and burnouts and then shifting. And this podcast was born from that. Like I want to do something creative. For me, just for me, I didn't have any intention of really going anywhere. It was really just like as we swing back in and it's so perfect in when we're stepping into something creative and looking at
Speaker 2 (24:01)
⁓ wow.
Speaker 1 (24:14)
Is our intention love or is our attention money?
Speaker 2 (24:18)
As you're talking, I'm realizing Julia Cameron herself is a great example of what can happen when you just do something out of pure passion because she kind of started very grassroots. She was just offering creative workshops in Greenwich Village. And people said, you should be writing this stuff down. So she started writing it down. And then she started kind of mailing out pamphlets to people. Like it was the book in microform. And it was like very, very grassroots, like kind of just.
following her flow, but didn't really know what it would become. And she self-published in the beginning. Yeah. And I mean, now it's, like I said before, it's ⁓ sold bazillions of copies and has been around for 33 years and still bestseller list. So I think she didn't know where she was going with that. didn't, you know, she was, sounds like she was mostly doing it for love at that point. Love of her students and participants and herself. ⁓ So yeah, sometimes you just have to believe and then
Speaker 1 (24:52)
crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:14)
you can be amazed by what comes after that.
Speaker 1 (25:17)
Right. And that's so huge. So as you're sitting down with somebody and you're saying, okay, we're going to work on this creative pursuit. We're to work on say, writing a book and you're going, is it for love or money? And you talked about, there's two different avenues that you're going to go, depending on kind of where that goal is. What are those two different avenues? How are we addressing things differently? If it's love or money.
What is that different way? What is your thought process behind that? Because I know for me, when I do it love, there's a lot more like passion and exploratory in play. And when I'm like, I'm doing this for money, I can literally feel the creativity shut down and be like,
And things that go well in my life are usually something that was for love and passion and then just expanded. And the things that I'm like, I'm doing this for money, tend to fizzle more for me.
Speaker 2 (26:11)
Yeah, and I think when we have a goal, you sometimes we're fast forwarding in our head to our like the biggest and best outcome. So if we're writing a book, it's like, okay, I'm going to get like this major publisher, you know, I'm to have a bestseller, then maybe I'm going to have to start a podcast and then I'm going to do we kind of do like this if then thing where it becomes larger than life, you know, or like even with a business, it's like
Okay, you know, I'm looking around Instagram, I'm seeing all these people, you know, making Voku bucks and, you know, I'm going to be one of those people. But that means I have to get a really expensive website, you know, do all these and we kind of start checking off all these boxes that ⁓ kind of just overcomplicate things. And so it's like doing that check in with yourself at the beginning is like, am I doing this just for the love of it or for the money? And it's like,
I think either way, you don't have to necessarily do that whole fast forwarding thing and do the whole kitchen sink in the beginning. You can kind of take that laboratory mindset and just play a little bit. One of the other resources I really like is called Designing Your Life. It's a book. ⁓ It's written by two Stanford professors, and it's based on a very popular course there that's all about using design thinking in your life.
But it's a tool you can use when you're thinking about maybe making a big life leap, like starting a business, changing cities, ⁓ insert whatever it might be here. But one of the things that they like is they encourage you to do something called prototyping. And that can be doing like little mini experiments or experiences around the thing you want to try. So it might be doing an informational interview with somebody who's already self-published a book or ⁓ just like.
maybe go into the bookstore and like looking at the shelf where your book might be or like kind of getting those like micro moments of exploring it without putting like tons and tons of pressure on yourself. And so I realized I'm getting a little bit off the for love or money thing, but I think it really comes back to pressure. It's like we put so much pressure on ourselves, especially when we're planning to monetize something or hoping to monetize something.
And so it's like in the beginning, ⁓ let yourself have that moment where maybe you are doing it for the love of it, where you just get to experience it and see if it might be for you. One of my friends, Sandra Wint, she specializes in human design. She talks about how the design of certain people, they actually kind of have to try something before they know if it's a fit for them. So if you do that kind of like experimentation or like kind of just
playing on the side or whatever it might be if you have a full-time job, ⁓ you can kind of test drive something before you know if you want to do it for money or maybe just like try it for the love of it, you know? Because I think like, for instance, you know, I spent much of my career as a freelance journalist, but I was doing it ⁓ on the side for a long time, a full-time job. And I was mainly doing it writing about things I was passionate about.
So I grew up doing dance and cheerleading and I ended up writing for a family of 10 different dance and cheerleading magazines. I mean, yes, I was making money, but I had a full-time job, you know, and I was really just doing it for the love of those things, you know, dance and cheerleading and the love of freelance writing and learning what it was all about. And after about seven years, I did go full-time with my freelance writing, but I had that kind of test drive period where I was able to dance between
for love and for money and see like, do I really want this to be my thing? And so that's one of the things I always encourage people to do is like kind of test drive it in some way. Do those micro moments to see if this is really a leap you wanna take and do that check in with yourself around, am I doing this for love or for money? And how do I wanna intentionally approach this in a way that feels really good to me?
Speaker 1 (29:59)
I love that test drive idea. I think there are so many humans that we get into something because we think that's what we want or what we should do. And then we're stuck because the more that we go in, so I work with a lot of women in that midlife space and the idea of giving up a career, like shifting, refocusing, pivoting gets really hard. And one of the things I hear so much is,
but I got my masters in it. I put so much time, education and money into this. Like, I feel like I just need to keep doing this because I've already invested so much into it. And if we had test drove and played with it more, we might've found out a little earlier that this isn't my love and passion. And also the permission to pivot and that we don't have to just because we're test driving something, just because we're driving something that we can't.
do something different.
Speaker 2 (31:01)
Yeah, that actually brings us back to the disclaimers. Yes. Because I find that when people are starting a second act and they're very established in another realm, they can be quite shy around the new thing that they're doing or maybe even like hide it or I know for myself that was the case, which is kind of crazy. But I had been a freelance journalist and editor for a very long time. And during that time, I was teaching on the side. was, you know,
coaching on the side, I wouldn't say on the side. I mean, it was one of numerous income streams, but I was known more as a writer, I would say. As that work grew, you know, after, would say after about 16 years of being a full-time writer, I was ready to transition to ⁓ coaching and teaching and facilitation full-time. But I had so much of my identity wrapped up in being a writer that it was nerve-racking and scary to say I was like starting this new venture, even though I've been doing those things for a long time, but it wasn't my...
primary identity, so to speak. And I found that when I was going to networking events, I was still leading with my journalism work and my writing work. And then I would tack my creative group stuff onto the end, like this little tiny button. And after a while, I had to say to myself, like, first of all, why are you doing that when what you really want to be talking to people about is this new direction that you're taking, you know? And that was my own form of a disclaimer is kind of like staying rooted in where I felt established and competent.
You know, and I love another great book, you know, The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix. Gay Hendrix talks about your zone of competence versus your zone of genius. know, and often we stay in our zone of competence because it's safer, you know, and we feel like we might have to give disclaimers if we're daring to dream into our zone of genius.
Speaker 1 (32:49)
⁓ I'm so glad you wove that in around disclaimers because I know I was one totally as I pivoted my career really, you know, introducing myself still as I'm an occupational therapist first. And I really don't practice occupational therapy. Yes, I got the degree. It's in my brain. That's not what I'm doing and who I am as I show up with clients on a daily basis. And I really had to consciously
focus on how I was introducing myself because I'm like, this isn't really who I am and what I'm doing anymore. But this was the zone of competence. This was the safety net that I was in. This is the approved way of doing it, quote unquote, where stepping in and coaching and there's like the therapist coach like and chin that goes on there. But stepping in and coaching and saying, I'm going to do something really, really different. I'm going to run a podcast.
I'm gonna show up in a different way. I'm gonna let go of all of this education that I have done. I wasn't seeing that as a disclaimer, but now as you're saying that, like, I was doing that too. I was like, really into this, you know, identity. And I love how you bring in the identity because I think so much of stepping into something new and also that creative pursuit is that identity of this is who I am. And I for years would say, I'm not creative.
Like I don't have anything like I don't do anything creative. I used to. And if I looked at my childhood, like I did dance and art and music and, you know, really was a creative child. And then somewhere in the adulthood, I lost all that and started seeing myself as not a creative person. I'm not somebody that can paint or draw or write or any of that. And it wasn't till this last few years that I started exploring that more.
but it is in that identity of could I put myself out there as the identity of a creative, ⁓ of an artist or writer or something big like that. It's like, ⁓ that pushes some boundaries.
Speaker 2 (34:57)
Yeah, it's funny. I have a client, and I know she is okay with me saying this, but she, for the longest time, we talked about the verb versus the noun. Yes. Because she was comfortable talking about making art, but not calling herself an artist. And I think that there's something to the, like you said, identity. I always say, if you write, therefore you are a writer. If you make art, therefore you are an artist. Like we all have this invisible threshold of
Okay, when I get published in a paying outlet, then I'm a writer. ⁓ When I get that first paying client, maybe I am a business, but I get that mentality around business, right? Because it's like, wanna be making revenue. Of course, that's what a business is, I understand that. But really stepping into that identity shift of I am a business owner now, and that first client is right around the corner. That might bring the client to you.
Speaker 1 (35:50)
Absolutely. And that is such a huge shift for business owners as an entrepreneur, really identifying as an entrepreneur, a business owner, you know, the boss of something. And that is such a big shift. And often it's claiming that identity and stepping into it and really owning it that does shift and bring us the things that we want because we're still just kind of playing, you know, small by the side when you're like, ⁓ I'm waiting for that.
thing, I'm waiting to get my book published to say that I'm a writer. Instead of I'm a writer and I was published, I'm a writer first. We're saying like, I don't get to earn that title until I've done something big to deserve it.
Speaker 2 (36:37)
And it's a moving target. Like, guess what? You're going to hit that threshold and then it's going to be something else. ⁓ So like, just do it. Just be it. Yeah, just be it.
Speaker 1 (36:42)
Absolutely.
I love that just be it. Really
just it. That's just be it. Claim it, own it, see it. I am an artist, a writer, a painter, whatever it is that's stepping into that.
Speaker 2 (36:59)
It's so freeing. then notice what the disclaimers are that you're wanting to say, acknowledge it. By the way, you know, and it's going to keep happening. But again, the more you train away from that, the more it will become the identity that you're wishing to adopt.
Speaker 1 (37:16)
Absolutely. my gosh, you're so incredible.
Speaker 2 (37:21)
I love the lens that you bring around ⁓ the somatic piece, you know, in the nervous system piece, because that's something I'm so curious about, but that's not necessarily my expertise, but they definitely go hand in hand. And so I love hearing kind of what you're bringing in around all this too.
Speaker 1 (37:36)
But so incredible, like we just tell it's so fun. As we're coming to a close, are there any last words, advice, wisdom that you would like to share with the listener?
Speaker 2 (37:39)
Great. ⁓
Hmm. Well, I think, you know, since our primary topic, you know, is around disclaimers today, I think, you know, after you listen to this podcast, maybe just for the next week or two, just simply notice, where are you giving disclaimers in your daily life? You know, if you're in a conference room in a meeting and you know, you're about to present your research or something like that, and you're like, ⁓ you know, this just got put on my plate. So this is what I've come up with, you know, or whatever it might be. ⁓
Zip it. Don't say it. it float away on a cloud and simply launch into this hard work that you put in and what you have to share with the group. You have something valuable to contribute and you need to believe that. It's important. so, yes, the disclaimer serves a purpose. And sometimes, and I guess I'll share one last thing, disclaimers can sometimes help us feel free to share. So they're not always bad.
you know, sometimes it's the conduit we need to be able to do the sharing, to just be able to say like, my gosh, you know, I thought I'd have all this time to work on this last night. I didn't, you know, this is what I wrote. Transparency, I think, can be different than disclaimers. But if you're simply saying it, you know, just to ⁓ make things more palatable or kind of like avoid judgment, I think then it is a disclaimer. And so.
Know the difference between transparency and disclaimers and train yourself away from those disclaimers. And it starts with just noticing how often you do it and starting to wave it away.
Speaker 1 (39:21)
is so big because like that transparency, that vulnerability is huge in connecting human to human and really stepping up, owning where you are in life, and really hearing that difference of I truly had a kid sick all night and I am exhausted and I am just trying to hang on. Here's what I have but I am showing up in the world which is amazing and having worked really really hard on something.
And then putting it forth with, I just didn't have much time to do it. You know, I just, I, know, whatever disclaimer that you're putting in there, there is a different energy that you're putting forth. There's a different energy of I am vulnerable and I'm still putting myself out there. And I am being vulnerable, but I'm trying to soften the blow. I'm being more palatable. I love how you frame that. am being more palatable so that people can, you know, accept and see.
And I think that's a huge thing that we're doing is we're trying to be more palatable for others instead of really stepping into our own energy and power and really say, this is me. And that is huge. And that's a song that I play from, you know, the greatest showman, but it's like, I need that pump up. It's like, this is me comes on, but it's really stepping into, we can own what's going on in our life and really put our energy forth in like,
This is where I am, this is what I got, but I tried.
Speaker 2 (40:53)
Yeah, and I think there's an element to along with being more palatable around playing smaller. I have a colleague and I always forget how to pronounce her last name. It's either Brittany niche or niche. Forgive me for not knowing how to spell or pronounce your last name. But she gave an amazing talk recently about this idea of being too much in the workplace. You know, and allowing yourself to be 100 % you. And so I think sometimes we give disclaimers if we don't want to be too much.
And so again, it's like, what's your thing that's making you give the disclaimer, you know, and how do we move through that so that we're not just claiming away all the amazing things we have to offer.
Speaker 1 (41:33)
Right. It's that curiosity and play coming back in and that curiosity of, what is, why do I want to put this disclaimer out? What's behind that? And I love coming back to your 2%, but there's too much truth to that, that we can own that, that yes, somewhere in our life story, we probably felt that we were too much or that we weren't creative enough or that whatever it is from some probably random persons,
you know, on whatever we were doing. Maybe it was a person we know. And now we put that disclaimer for everyone and owning that 2%, getting curious about what's behind it and then being able to reframe.
Speaker 2 (42:13)
thousand percent.
Speaker 1 (42:15)
my gosh, this is so incredible. I could just talk to you forever.
Speaker 2 (42:18)
I know this is great stuff, you know, and I love nerding out on it because I'm sorry, but this touches every single person on the planet. One person out there that doesn't do this in some way. And how cool would it be if we all just agreed to stop? To move into the no disclaimer zone.
Speaker 1 (42:26)
does.
percent.
Exactly. And if we all stepped into that no disclaimer zone, like what would change not in not only in our own lives, but in the world as we have more creatives that step out and really show what they have hidden underneath that they're playing small with.
Speaker 2 (42:55)
Exactly. Yeah. So thank you, Lani. This has been so juicy to dig into with you.
Speaker 1 (43:02)
husband, it's been fabulous. And I know there are so many listeners that are resonating with what you are saying. How can people continue the conversation with you?
Speaker 2 (43:11)
Yeah, so I would love to connect with people on LinkedIn and or Instagram. My Instagram handle is your creative groove. I'll be totally honest and say I'm not super, super active on social media. I love real life connection, but I'm trying to be better. Also LinkedIn, you can find me at Jen Jones Donatelli. And then if the artist way is something you're interested in, or maybe even one on one coaching, you can check out my website, which is simply creative groove.com.
And you can email me, Jen, J-E-N, at creativegroove.com. I would love to hear from you, maybe what resonated with you around this topic ⁓ and how you're going to train yourself away from those disclaimers.
Speaker 1 (43:51)
I love it and I will have everything down in the show notes so it's an easy click to be able to reach you. Jen, thank you so much for this conversation.
Landy Peek (44:00)
I invite you to take just a second and think about the last time you gave a disclaimer. Maybe it was in a meeting. Maybe it was before you shared a piece of writing, a creative idea, or even how tired you really are. What would have felt different in your body if you had simply said the thing? No softening, no pre-shame, just you. That's the invitation I'm carrying forward from this conversation with Jen to notice the urge to apologize.
to feel the flutter in your nervous system, and then to come back into your body. Rub your fingers together, feel your feet on the floor, and choose a new sentence. I'm not very good at this, but I'm creative. I'm learning. I'm allowed to be here. Imagine what would shift in your life, your work, your relationships, if you stopped making yourself palatable and started standing in your full creative power.
I get how scary that feels. That's not just mindset work. That's nervous system work, identity work. That's our soul work. If this episode landed for you, I'd love to hear what your biggest takeaway was, especially what disclaimers you're ready to wave away. I invite you to connect with Jen at creativegroove.com on Instagram, LinkedIn. All of her links are in the show notes. And if you know another woman who's sitting on a book,
a business or a buried creative dream? Please share this episode with her. The more of us who step into a no disclaimer zone, the more creative, honest and alive this world becomes.
I invite you to give yourself a big hug from me. Notice those disclaimers when they bubble up and stay wildly, tenderly, curious, and unapologetic. This is Landy Peek and I will talk to you on the next episode.
Speaker 2 (45:56)
Hey, before you go, just a little bit of legal. This podcast is designed for educational purposes only. It is not to replace any expert advice from your doctors, therapists, coaches, or any other professional that you would work with. It's just a chat with a friend, me, where we get curious about ideas, thoughts, and things that are going on in our lives.
As we're talking about friends, if you know someone who would benefit from a conversation today, please share because I think the more that we open up these conversations, the more benefit we all get. So until next time, give yourself a big hug from me and stay curious because that's the fun in this world.
