Landy Peek (00:35)
Balance is a lie. What we actually need is internal equilibrium. And that starts with trust. Welcome back to the Landy Peak podcast, the place where high capacity women stop performing calm and start building real capacity in their nervous systems, leadership and lives. I'm Landy Peak, your friend and host. And today I'm joined by Charlotte Hagge, coach.
mom of two, and clear, steady voice for working mothers who are done hustling for their worth. Charlotte distinguishes challenge from distress,
maps how we slide from stress into burnout and shows us the path back to internal equilibrium, not performative balance. We talk resilience as a skill set, false identities like the good girl and the achiever, and what it actually means to co-regulate our homes, our teams, and our families. If you've ever thought, I'm the strong one doing it all and I'm exhausted,
This conversation will feel like the oxygen that you're craving. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (01:42)
want to welcome Charlotte Hagge to the Lady Peak podcast. I'm so thrilled you're here. Charlotte, can you share a little bit about yourself so the listeners can get to know you?
Speaker 1 (01:51)
Yes, absolutely. Landi, I am so delighted to be here. I have been listening to your podcast. I love that your podcast creates these conversations that shift perspective because that is what I am passionate about too. I, for me, so much of what we need in this world is a different perspective on things. And I loved, I was actually just looking at your Instagram a few days ago and you had an amazing post there.
about these patterns that we live with and these patterns that we live out, especially as highly capable women who are trying so hard and working so hard. And for me, that's specifically around working and motherhood, because I find myself in quite a funny place. Motherhood really took me by surprise. And it's brought me to this beautiful
place in my career that I get to work with working moms. But children were something that I wanted, but they were kind of almost just another thing that I would do. You know, they were another ⁓ thing that my pattern, my identity would do. And I have always been driven, always been doing, and that was really praised. So I hustled and I sprinted and I crashed cars quite often. But my story really starts when I had this little boy.
come into my life and suddenly I didn't want to be that woman who was doing all the time. I didn't want to be this hustler. you know, it sounds, it probably sounds so cliched, but this little boy needed a mum. He didn't need someone who could do more and more. He actually needed me to, and he forced me to sit with him. He used to have these 45 minute tantrums and he used to sit and force me to be there and to be present with him.
And I realized that I couldn't keep sprinting. I had to stop doing, and that might trigger someone in the audience. I hope that it does because I feel you. I just want to, my whole message to working moms out there is that we have to start building our resilience and our resilience is those inner muscles that allow us to just be the person that we want to be.
So yeah, an answer to who I am and what I stand for, I suppose I am Charlotte. I'm a mum of two small children living in Cape Town in South Africa. And I have the incredible privilege of taking all that I've learned about being a woman, being a mum, being a human and the struggles that come with that and helping mums who are stressed and exhausted kind of turn that on its head, find peace and calm.
and joy in this fabulous busy season. So that is what I'm all about.
Speaker 2 (04:46)
Incredible. And so resonant with me as I had that similar experience of being a working human and doing a lot. And before my first daughter, I had three different jobs, not because I necessarily needed three different jobs, but because that's just kind of, I was an occupational therapist and I worked in the schools and I worked private practice and I worked early intervention and weaved everything in and out. I loved being busy.
I love showing up for my work. And then you have this tiny human who really doesn't need you to do more, but to be with them. And that slowing down. And I remember the anxiety as I'm sitting with my daughter and rocking her in those like big moments in the space where she needs me most. And there's that torn space of like, my gosh, I've got to get up and do something. And I know if I just put
my daughter down and let her, it's not going to resolve. She really does need me here. So I resonate with your message so deeply. I wanna start with your, as we kind of talked before, your belief is that stress is a choice. And this is so fascinating to me. And I'm not sure I agree. So I'm really curious to kind of hear.
where you're coming from and how you see that stress is the choice.
Speaker 1 (06:16)
Yeah. I love that you don't agree because I think so often people will just nod their head and say, yes. ⁓ but I love that, that I can explain what I mean. Yes. So I look at the difference between stress and challenge. You know, there are actually two different types of stress. There is a stress called you stress, which is a really good stress. And we need a bit of stress if we didn't have.
Stress, we wouldn't get up in the morning. It drives us to get up and to get moving. And then we have the stress that we all know so well, and that is distress. So there are these two different types of stress. And when we are in a place of optimal stress, we are also in a place of optimal performance. you know, that ⁓ concept of flow,
And flow comes when we're doing something that we're slightly challenged by. So we are working towards something, we're driving ourselves, pushing ourselves just that little bit more. But if we look at a graph with the x-axis as performance and the y-axis as challenge, have I got my axes the right way? When we experience a challenge that is either
goes on for too long or is greater than we think. And this is where the choice comes in there, greater than the belief that we have that we can cope with that challenge. Then we move. So we move along the axis up into this beautiful place of you stress on high performance because we're being challenged. You you get a promotion and while you, you rise to the challenge.
But then the challenge goes on for too long or the challenge gets bigger than you think that you can cope with. And then you start to move out of that eustress and into distress. But so for me, challenge is the thing that's happening to us, but stress is the thing that is happening in us in response to probably what we think is a challenge. And it might not necessarily be a challenge because
Speaker 2 (08:17)
Yes!
Speaker 1 (08:32)
often have you felt stressed and someone else is under the same situation and they don't feel you like, how do you not feel stressed about this? And for me, that's the choice is like that person doesn't feel stressed about it, because they have a different belief about that external thing. And so it's understanding, ⁓ it's noticing and we spend so much time just living in our stress and accepting it. I'm just so stressed. I'm so stressed because of what's going
Speaker 2 (08:40)
Yes!
Speaker 1 (09:02)
around me, but actually if I know why I'm stressed, why I'm having this response, which is a stress response to a threat outside of me, well, I'm having a response to something that's happening because I see it as a threat. And if I could change my ⁓ belief about that threat, or I can change my response to that threat, I can choose to feel something different.
Speaker 2 (09:32)
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:32)
then
I get out of that stress response and I come back to a place of calm and neutral where I can think clearly again. So I don't know that answer is your question.
Speaker 2 (09:40)
It was, and it's so beautiful because I love how you are reframing stress, challenge, and distress. Because now I see like where you're coming from and we do have some very overlapping thoughts around here, but it's looking at, yes, we do run on stress and that challenge that comes in, we either take it as a challenge and we see it as something that we go into flow.
We rise to that challenge. We enjoy that level of stress. And there's a lot of us, if not all of us have experienced that kind of joy in having that challenge that's coming through that you're pushing yourself, you're creating something and there's excitement there. And we've all had that tipping point where that excitement or something else comes in and it just kind of tips us over the edge to
distress. And I love that separation where we're going from, yes, stress is okay, stress is in our life, and we can choose how we're navigating that, but we can also tip into that distress. And it's so fabulous. And one of the things that I share, it really overlaps with you, like stress, and I believe you said stress, you think, stress is where you think you can't cope with it. Is that right?
Like it comes in where that challenge is like, my gosh, I can't handle this. So then that stress really piles on or that distress piles on. I've shared a similar idea around anxiety. That anxiety is really that thought that we won't be able to handle it. And it's really weaving in that same belief system of, okay, in that calm centered state, necessarily calm.
focused centered state of I'm okay. I'm going to be able to handle what comes at me. We do feel stress and challenge, but we're not distressed. We're not anxious. It's fabulous.
Speaker 1 (11:46)
It's amazing. And part of that, I think, is that we move down the curve from that point of being in eustress and performing so beautifully into first exhaustion and then into anxiety. So when I've got that eustress, I'm going and then I feel slightly stressed and now I'm feeling quite tired and now I'm in anxiety. Now it's becoming this bigger thing and I definitely can't cope and then down into burnout. So we kind of roll down the other side of the curve.
Speaker 2 (12:14)
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:14)
into
this case of anxiety and burnout. And I like to use, used to row at university and I love to use the analogy of a rowing race where, ⁓ you know, if you, used to row a five kilometer race, I don't know what that is, miles, sorry. But ⁓ at the start you've trained for it, you know that you can cope, you are fit, you are strong, you have the race plan in mind and
You come out the blocks and you know, 3000 meters into the race, someone comes and says, Oh, actually we don't know where the finish line is. And so you just got to keep going until you reach the finish line. And that is where we then go into stress, into distress, exhaustion, anxiety, because we're like, am I going to be able to do this? Am I fit enough? I don't know where I'm going. I don't know where the end is. I don't know if I can cope. And then we end up in.
the cycle, the stress response cycle, and we don't get to that point where we're safe. And I've crossed the finish line and actually now I can, and I can rebuild my capacity.
Speaker 2 (13:22)
You're right. And how, and it is that unknown that really creates that distress. When we have the, this is my deadline, this is my goal, this is where I have, which works really well in work environments. We kind of know where things are going to go. And yes, there might be some hiccups along the line or challenges or things, surprises that come in. But when we bring into motherhood, like there is no ending and there is no like,
guessing of what's going to come next and we don't know working with other little beings like what the morning is going to bring. You know if we're going to have one of those really beautiful smooth mornings and kids are huggy and we're having you know everybody's on time and we're working well or are we going to have one of those giant 45 minute tantrums that I'm not ready they're not ready I can see the clock ticking down they're still hysterical there's nothing I can do to make this go faster.
And we feel that distress because that inner story, this is totally my story, the inner story of I can't be late. It's rude to be late. I have to like get everybody there on time. And the anxiety then would come because I'm sitting with this ticking clock and then I'm not focusing on my child as much as I could be because I'm now anxious and I'm bringing my own stuff and then my anxiety and it explodes.
So where do we go? As we're shifting into supporting moms who are working, who are balancing stress from work, different challenges from work, as well as home life and balancing all of the different personalities and energies and things inside of our own families, because they're very different. Mm-hmm. Here we go.
Speaker 1 (15:18)
Well, I think of that, you know, another of my messages that I want to get out there is this idea of balance. And for me, balance is a lie. I really believe that balance is this myth that we have been sold, that we are chasing and actually trying to chase balance is causing us even more stress because balance is kind of insinuating that you've got the work on the one side and you've got life on the other side. And if you can just find that perfect place, it will all feel easier.
And, you know, actually the reality for us as working moms is we are, we're on a tightrope. I have an analogy of a tightrope and I have 57 balls in the air and I am wearing a mask over my eyes. I can't actually see what I'm doing and I'm listening to the boos or the cheers of the crowd and I'm trying to hold it all and give equal attention to all of these balls. And then I will be fine.
then it will become, then it'll be easier. And when we realize that that's actually not the reality, I'm never gonna find balance in that way. For me, it's all about internal equilibrium. It's all about the resilience that gives us internal equilibrium. And that comes from, first of all, knowing who we are. You know, I talked at the beginning about your patterns and what I call these false identities of...
the people pleaser or the perfectionist or the A for achiever, know, the A type personality, the good girl, we get caught up in this good girl syndrome. It has these rules that say exactly what you're saying. I need to be on time. And if I don't, means something about me. And that's the threat then the threat to my reputation or the threat to
Speaker 2 (16:55)
huh.
Speaker 1 (17:10)
my career or the threat to what people think about me is a threat to this survival strategy that I've built so beautifully. And I need to keep that up. So I can't belay. So you having a tantrum is not serving my need to feel safe because now I'm in a stress response. So I need to get out the door, but actually we're still in that stress response. And when we are resilient, we actually no longer hold onto
those identities or those patterns, as you call them, we no longer live by the rules of them. We, the first absolute first, I call it a skill set of resilience. And the first skill is that self-awareness. Why am I behaving like this? Or why am I reacting like this? What is the story that I have that is causing me to have a reaction to whatever's going on?
then we learn how to emotionally self-regulate. So if I can dig out the stories that I have, the lies that I have, the beliefs that I have, and shift the patterns that I am stuck in, I won't respond or I won't react to that thing. That thing that's happening outside of me, that's actually neutral. know, the fact that the child's having a tantrum is a neutral circumstance.
But I am now putting all of this meaning onto this thing that's happening. I mean, my son, I'll never forget being in a supermarket and him lying on the floor because he couldn't have something that he already had 20 of. Screaming his lungs out. And I just sat there with him.
Speaker 2 (18:48)
I've been there!
Speaker 1 (18:51)
Yeah. And people walk past and interestingly, older people, a lot of older people find it really uncomfortable. They're like, just buy it for him. Just buy it for him. And some woman said to me, I've got a book about how to look after naughty children. Do you want it? And I was like, my child is not naughty. He's just having a huge emotion. Yeah. it's my job to regulate myself and support him in this. And I have no story about what's going on here.
Speaker 2 (19:13)
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:18)
This child just needs me right now to be his mom. So you can think whatever you want, but I'm here being his mom and being present with him and doing what the second skill of resilience is, is emotionally self-regulating. So I'm not getting myself into a stressed out state about this. I am able to stay safe and calm. The fascinating thing is that our heart rate pattern reaches a meter outside of our bodies.
Speaker 2 (19:48)
What?
Speaker 1 (19:48)
So
if you have a chaotic heart rate pattern, your child is going to, you know, you think about a mom who holds their baby and she's calm and the baby's able to calm because they don't know how to self-regulate. So we have to co-regulate. We regulate that baby. When we are panicked, it's not sleeping. Why am I doing something wrong? That baby gets panicked and everybody, you know, it doesn't just happen with babies. It happens everywhere. It happens everywhere. And
Speaker 2 (20:13)
It really does.
Speaker 1 (20:17)
when we can co-regulate, so when we can regulate ourselves, we can co-regulate not just our children, but everyone around us. And we can actually have this huge ⁓ influence. We're not a product of our environment anymore, but we're actually influencing, we're producing our environment, if you will. We've turned it around. And
Speaker 2 (20:27)
Hmm?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (20:46)
I used in my coaching program, I use what I call the clear mind method because when you are able to self-regulate, you are now able to think clearly. So we teach you how to go from that point of chaos and reactivity to the point where actually now I can think clearly. I can choose how I'm going to respond. You know, we spend so much time trying to change our actions and our behavior, but we've got to get under, I like to think of us like an iceberg. We've got to get under the iceberg.
Yes. From the bottom up, build foundations of that iceberg that are going to allow us to do the things that we want to do.
Yeah, that is my answer to how do we do it? I mean, that's an overarching answer. And how do we do that? Obviously, it's more nuanced. But when we can build our resilience, then we are able to find that internal balance that we need.
Speaker 2 (21:39)
love that you're shifting it to your equilibrium, to inside your own body, and that you're not using the language of calm, but clear and clear focus and clear mind. Because I think so many times when humans are taught or hear about that self-regulation, we think that we need to be fully calm and zen. But we don't.
have to be fully calm and Zen because that clear regulation also gives us that space to flow, to have that clear, quick thinking. And so the goal and you're really highlighting it is that clear mind instead of that I'm Zen and calm and maybe disconnected, I'm fully present and in there. And that's huge. And really shifting in, there is control in that.
and being able to tease out the stories. Because as I did my own journey, and coming back to my example of like tantruming kids and the time sticking down, I really had to go in, is this so dysregulating for me? Why can sometimes I sit with a tantrum and be completely fine? Why when it's right before school, am I having such a hard time? And as I teased out, there were so many different belief patterns.
and thoughts and stories that I tied to being late. And I had to shift and let go of that. And once I let go of nothing is going to happen if I'm late, I am not a bad mom because my kids are late for school. It is okay if we show up for late. The only thing that happens is they get a tardy and I walk them through the front door instead of, you know, letting them go in like regular. It is not a huge deal. It's like that disappeared.
And then the anxiety that came with the tantrum before school vanished. The tantrums before school still happen, but we move through them more quickly because I'm not putting all of my stories and my anger and my anxiety into the mix. I get to sit neutral. It happened literally this morning. Now sitting at the top of the stairs with my daughter and we are just together.
And we got to move through the emotions and then we were on time for school and she didn't have a bad morning because I wasn't then yelling at her and making it a bigger deal. And that shift, but for me, it took two kind of, I'm sure there's more, but two big things of releasing the story and then really being able to tune into my own nervous system and noticing where I was. Like, am I really upregulated?
I don't have a lot of capacity for this. Or am I in a really good space where I do have the capacity to sit with her and have that whatever's coming out emotionally and we can navigate it. So as you're kind of working with that mom, what first let me go to who is that mom that shows up at your door? What does she look like? What are her struggles? What is kind of coming up in life that she is like, my gosh, I need you.
Speaker 1 (25:01)
Well, she is generally corporate or often an entrepreneur because, know, entrepreneurs have to do everything themselves. And there's a lot of drive. They're very driven in whatever she's doing. So she's always achieved. She's always done well. She's also probably achieved and then moved on to the next thing. So it's kind of never enough. I'm generally...
a hustler or I, you my value comes from the work that I do. And I've done a lot and I've, you know, created this image that is successful. And I love the work that I do. And I now have these little people who are dependent on me and who I also love. And I want to do the best for, and I'm thinking of all the time and I want
to emotionally build up and do right by. And I'm also so aware of what everybody else is thinking. And, you know, I want to be a good friend. I want to be a good daughter. There is this drive to be good, to achieve, to do it all right. And really just this internal struggle and exhaustion. At the end of the day, she's going to bed and she's like,
I'm just exhausted and she's waking up in the morning and she's exhausted and she wakes up in the morning and she says, today I'm going to do better. Today I'm going to do this the way that I want her to do today. I'm not going to shout today. I'm going to finish the things on my to-do list. And again, the day comes to an end and she's kind of back where she starts. And she just feels like she's stuck in this hamster wheel almost thinking, ⁓ you know, I'm almost longing for the day when they leave home because then maybe I'll have a moment.
for myself.
Speaker 2 (26:57)
I I was excited. was when my youngest hit kindergarten and I'm like, my gosh, they both have to go someplace. Because the mom guilt of daycare when my son really didn't want to go and I left him crying and you feel awful. And he had the most loving person who, you know, like I trusted wholeheartedly and would hug him. And it's not like, you know, he's just there. But the guilt around that.
versus, my gosh, you have to go to school. Legally, you have to go. I no longer have a choice. This is just it. It's not me saying I'm choosing my work over my kid. It is, this is it. There is freedom in that.
Speaker 1 (27:42)
And isn't that interesting is almost like that's another rule. ⁓ that's someone else's rule that I can follow because the rules in my head ⁓ are loud and noisy and I don't quite know they're causing all this kind of chaos. But that's a rule that I can follow that I know someone else has set so I can go for it.
Speaker 2 (27:47)
Yes
love that reframe.
Speaker 1 (28:08)
It'd be quite interesting to see like, what if I decided actually that I was going to just take my children out of school for a little while, or, know, or I wasn't going to have a career or I want, you know, these rules are absolutely fascinating for me and how we get stuck in them.
Speaker 2 (28:24)
It's incredible. And as somebody who tried to be a stay at home mom, did not love it. Homeschooled my children during the whole, and I pulled my daughter completely out of public school during the whole shutdown 2020, 2021, because the online interface for her was not what she could handle. And so, yes, I've done the different things. And...
I want to really highlight because you just had like light bulbs going off in my head. It's our rules versus someone else's set rule and how much easier it is to follow that set rule outside without the guilt and the shame tied to it. Then those, and I hadn't thought about it as my rule, but that my rules of I want to work and I want to be a parent and I only worked part time since my daughter
was born 10 years ago. So it's not like I'm a mom that's really juggling. I'm an entrepreneur. So that said, work is always there. It lives with me at home. So while I see that I only work, there are some boundaries that overflow. But really looking at, those are my internal rules and guides versus the external rules and guides. And the external rules and guides, when I like them, as in my kids have to go to school,
feel really easy and supportive.
Speaker 1 (29:51)
I love ⁓ Gretchen Rubin talks about the four tendencies and one of them is the obliger. And we all feel much easier when we're obliging, ⁓ we're obliged to meet other people's rules. But I love the idea and I have one of my other little ⁓ programs is called the guilt free focus formula because it's looking at how do we
shift from this place of guilt into a place of, of feeling at ease by looking at our values. So if I am feeling this way because I'm out of alignment with my values, then, and the issue is that most of us don't know what our values are. So what is actually important to me? Because again, we're living to the rules of the world. So what is really important to me?
And then I can look at, okay, this is my action and it was out of alignment with my values. And so now I can do something about that. Or, and there, there's a difference between there's something wrong with what I did or there's something wrong with me. So when it's the identity piece, we then have to go into this, you know, what is the identity and what are the rules we're living by? ⁓ But when it's really around our values, I can say, well,
I feel guilty about this because it's out of alignment with my values. And so I can do something about that instead of sitting and wallowing in the guilt, which is exhausting because guilt is a, ⁓ energy depleting emotion to sit in. I can go and do something about it. So I shouted at my child that goes against my value of connection. And now I could sit on the sofa for the rest of the evening, just feeling ghastly.
Or I could go and I could sit with my child and I could say, gosh, I'm really sorry. That was a mistake. And I shouldn't have done it. And in that moment, you know, we know that we know this, we are modeling to our children resilience. And for me, it's an intergenerational thing. It's not, not only about the women who walk into my, my practice, it's about the children that they are bringing up and they are modeling to those children.
that I too can go out and have my own values and my own rules and I can stand firm and certain in who I am. I don't have to do it all. I don't have to have it all. I can actually be on that tightrope and juggle the balls that I wanna juggle. And I'm so certain in myself that I can be peaceful and I can be joyful in this season.
Speaker 2 (32:37)
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:38)
And that's the joy.
Speaker 2 (32:41)
It is, and it's so incredible because we are modeling and teaching and really giving our kids what the idea and the experience of what life can be. And I think that repair when we do, cause we're human and we're not going to be perfect. We're not robots. We're going to lose it at times, but modeling that repair of coming back and saying, I'm really sorry kiddo. Like,
I lost it. That was a mommy time that, you know, I was overwhelmed, stressed, whatever. And I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have done that. And that connection there, because you're right, a lot of times we do beat ourselves up for that experience of, my gosh, I healed up my kids. So now I'm like, I'm a horrible mom. And we go on. Or the choice in that stress is to come and repair.
So we can sit and stew or the choice is to repair. And when we repair, both parties feel better.
Speaker 1 (33:46)
Absolutely. And I don't think it's even just with our children. It's with our colleagues or a friend. And it's incredibly, it's so interesting how saying, I'm sorry is, is hard. And I mean, it's, it's obviously natural because I mean, my children really struggled to say, I'm sorry, but there's this thing in like the vulnerability of saying, I'm sorry. Yes. And because I suppose that saying,
I did something wrong. again, there's a story around that because I need to be the good one. I've got to protect my, myself and you know, identity when we're living in these false identities, it's all about self preservation and self promotion. So am I preserving myself or am I promoting myself? And if I'm not, that feels uncomfortable because the rules of the identities are saying that we have to self preserve and we have to self promote. But when we can get out from under them,
We don't worry about vulnerability, about saying sorry, because actually we, again, we're like, this is me. This is absolutely me and I'm good enough. I'm valuable enough. I'm worthwhile enough that I've made a mistake and it doesn't mean that I'm not good enough or I'm less than, and it's so liberating. ⁓
Speaker 2 (35:06)
It is, it's really taking and kind of pulling apart the actions that we do and the who that we are. Because I'm not a bad mom because I yelled. Yelling wasn't a behavior that I liked, but it doesn't mean that my identity changed. Would you talk a little bit about those false identities? I love...
how you frame that because I haven't heard that before, but it is so accurate when we look at, this is a false identity.
Speaker 1 (35:39)
Absolutely. And I think it is labels that we give ourselves consciously, but also labels that we take on unconsciously. So maybe it is like the good girl. And right at the beginning, I felt like we were all stuck in this good girl syndrome. it is what I call the good girl syndrome. But then that actually, again, there are nuances to that. So what is a good girl? Is she an achiever?
Or is she the one who pleases everybody? Or is she the one who does things perfectly? Or is she the one who chameleons to meet everybody else's kind of ways of being? Or is she the martyr? And each of these false identities that we take on, that we got praised for. So the people pleaser got praised for keeping the peace and for doing it for everybody.
Can I help you? aren't you so wonderful? You're so kind. I was coaching a client the other day and she has a huge people please identity. And she said, but everyone tells me how kind I am. And I said, what would it be like if you did something for someone that no one else saw? And she was like, Ooh, that was kind of a moment of like, Ooh, I don't know.
And she had to sit with that and, know, can we do things? I mean, we do, we are kind and not especially as moms, we're kind, you know, and we have kindness in us, but often our kindness is seen as the things that we're doing for everybody because the people please are telling us we have to do them. And we're getting praised for them and we want the affirmation. And you know, if I'm a hustler, wow.
Speaker 2 (37:22)
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:29)
You hustle and you get these results. Aren't you amazing? And we're getting our, our value from what we're being told is good about ourselves. And we're losing our value from what we're being criticized or not seen as good. And that starts from little, you know, I love you see children in a trolley at the supermarket. They are not trying to be anything other than themselves. And they look at you and they smile at you and they cry at you or that. And they have.
They don't have these identities, they're just themselves.
Speaker 2 (38:01)
Right. ⁓
Speaker 1 (38:03)
we build up this kind of concrete protective layer that says, if I do this, I'm praised. And if I don't do this, I'm criticized. And so in order to, and I call them perform to belong rules, because in order to belong, I have to perform. In order for me to, you you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, my needs at the bottom are,
food and drink, and then it's safety and security, and then it's love and belonging. And actually, when I was little, in order to get food and drink and safety and security, I had to belong because otherwise I wouldn't survive. So now I'm going to do all the things that I've seen, get me the approval that I need. And now as adults, we're doing it still. And yet we don't need to anymore. And actually it's sabotaging us. Those identities are actually robbing us.
of the very thing that we want.
Speaker 2 (39:02)
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:03)
And I often use with my clients, the identity to stress map that I have, which is showing you, this is the identity that you have. And this is the stress that you're, is causing you. And then the truth map that says, is the true me. And we really dig into, have another tool that I use called the core identity blueprint, which says, actually, what is my core identity? Who was I when I was that little girl in the trolley?
Speaker 2 (39:29)
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:31)
And
how do I become her again or not become her, but find her underneath all of this other stuff? Gold. And she's solid and she's beautiful and she's hiding out and she's exhausted and she's stressed because gosh, it's exhausting carrying around all that concrete.
Speaker 2 (39:36)
Yes. ⁓
It's exhausting. And I love how you look at that core identity and finding her again. Because we hear so much language of becoming and chasing that external something. And I wholeheartedly agree. It's already inside us. We just need to weed the garden, pull out all of the different things and beliefs and patterns that we've picked up along the way to survive.
to get us to where we are. I mean, they've worked for us really, really well until we get to this point where we're overwhelmed, stressed out, burned out, have so much anxiety that they're not working well anymore. So we get to say, this no longer supports me. Let's weed that out and really come in and find that inner core identity of who we are. It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (40:41)
And I think that that is the key to anything. I think, you know, we spend so long changing our behavior, you know, if I'm just more organized or if I'm just better at time management or if I'm just more of a people pleaser or, you know, and that is the exhaustion is that we're desperately changing all of this behavior so that we can have a different result. And actually you get back down to it and you...
look at why am I behaving that way, which is the cycle that, you know, the more I behave this way, the more I need to be good. And the more I've got to work hard to be good. And we get caught up in this cycle. And, and then we, we just keep confirming those beliefs that we have about ourselves. And I also think that we've been told, you know, you just stare at the mirror and say, I'm great. I'm fabulous. I'm this, I'm that. But if we're just piling affirmations on top of lies,
they have nowhere to root themselves. And, you know, I like to think of a resilient tree on the bank of a river. That tree is so rooted that an elephant can come and rub itself up against the tree and the tree doesn't fall over. And we need those roots. We got to have good solid roots. Otherwise it's, we do get knocked over by the elephant and our experience crumbles.
Speaker 2 (41:41)
Great.
Right.
That's such a beautiful analogy. And as you kind of talk about all of these stories and the patterns and the identities that we've picked up along the way, those are things that have created shallow roots. And so we don't have that deep seated belief in ourself that no matter what comes our way, I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be able to handle it. That doesn't mean I'm gonna like it. Doesn't mean it's not gonna be hard, but it means that I'm gonna survive it and be okay.
And really that's that grounded route where you can have the elephant rubbing up against that tree and be okay. That's such a beautiful analogy for so many things in life. my gosh. Charlotte, as we come to a close, are there any last parting words that you would like to share with the listeners?
Speaker 1 (42:56)
I believe that when we can trust ourselves, everything changes. We are the leaders of our homes. We are the leaders of our workplaces, our businesses. If we're entrepreneurs, we're the leaders of ourselves. And one of the biggest issues we have is that we don't trust ourselves. And when we trust ourselves and trust is broken up into two elements, when we can trust our integrity and then we can trust our ability.
Speaker 2 (43:25)
Hmm?
Speaker 1 (43:26)
It changes everything because actually I've got this. Then you don't fall down the other side of the curve because you know, I have the, I want to do this because it's what I believe is right and what I value. And I know that I can do it. And then when we can trust ourselves, we can trust others. And when we can trust others, we no longer need to micromanage. We no longer need to hold onto things.
We can actually let things go. And then other people blossom as a result. Other people really grow under our, that kind of incubator of our trust, if you will. And that just allows for so much space, so much more time, so much more capacity and, and real freedom.
Speaker 2 (44:16)
goodness. And I just want to highlight, there's so much in there, but I just want to highlight that you really look at that woman, each individually as a leader, a leader of her home, a leader of herself. That shift is so powerful because I don't think many of us see ourselves in these mom roles as leaders. And it just shifts like,
the energy of how I'm gonna show up and how I'm going to interact and really expand. You are so incredible and brilliant I know that there are women who are resonating so deeply with your work just like I am.
Can you share how people can continue the conversation with you?
Speaker 1 (45:04)
Absolutely.
I have a private podcast called Unfrazzled, a new way to work and mother, and it just takes what we've been talking about and kind of, pulls it out a little bit. and yes, you can go to my website, charlottehaggie.com. I have three programs that, ⁓ I offer to people to work with me. I do do individual coaching, but, ⁓ the programs there are the guilt free focus formula that we've talked about.
And unshaken, which is really my identity work and starting to build that resilience. And then I have a six month group coaching program called resilience, which is for those moms who really just want to make a change and make a long lasting, sustainable change in their lives. So the website is there. The private podcast.
I also have a public podcast called the resilient working mum. So there's lots of information and tools and strategies there as well. And of course I'm various social media, Instagram, Facebook. So yeah, that would be wonderful if people want to, to take things further, please. I, and if you've listened to this and you want to DM me, I love hearing from people who have heard something that's
mean something to them and they want to carry on the conversation. love reaching out personally, so please do get in touch.
Speaker 2 (46:29)
Oh my goodness, so fabulous. And I will have all the links down in the show notes. And you are also one of the collaborators in the Village. Can you share what offer you have that's currently free from September 29th, 2025 to October 21st, 2025 inside the Village?
Speaker 1 (46:49)
Yes, absolutely. I'm loving being part of the village. It's such a joy. So thank you for giving us that opportunity, Landy. Unshaken is a toolbox to create a new way of being. It is the kind of beginning of getting to know those false identities that we carry and then figuring out how we can start to unpack their or get out from under them so that we can...
can be unshaken so that we can be more steady and stable in who we are.
Speaker 2 (47:23)
Thank you so much for being inside the village for doing this interview with me. And I am definitely going to go follow you and listening to your podcasts because now there's so much information and I want to dive in deeper with you. Thank you, Charlotte so much for being here.
Speaker 1 (47:40)
Thank you very much for having me.
Landy Peek (47:42)
If this conversation moves something in you, take a minute to pause, breathe, and let it root. And if you believe more women need to hear this kind of conversation, the ones that go deeper than self-help and into self-trust, the best way to help is simple. Leave a review, follow the show, share this episode with the strong one in your life. Every share helps this movement grow, not through noise, but through resonance.
I'm Landi Peek and this is the Landi Peek Podcast. Thank you for listening, leading, and becoming more of yourself with me.
Landy Peek (48:18)
Hey, before you go, just a little bit of legal. This podcast is designed for educational purposes only. It is not to replace
any expert advice from your doctors, therapists, coaches, or any other professional that you would work with. It's just a chat with a friend, me, where we get curious about ideas, thoughts, and things that are going on in our lives. And as we're talking about friends, if you know someone who would benefit from the conversation today, please share because I think the more that we open up these conversations, the more benefit we all get. So until next time, give yourself a big hug from me and stay curious.
Because that's the fun in this world.
